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Old September 26 2011, 05:50 AM   #886
Hound of UIster
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Well here's what I got going now:

Subscribed to Action Comics, Detective Comics, Superman and Batman, all of which I should get the #1's for (AC1 I have in-hand. The others I subscribed to during the time where DC "gaurnties" the #1 issues, if I end up not getting them I will just seek them out in other places.)

I'll probably get Supergirl, Catwoman and Wonder Woman #1s as those all look interesting, probably get them at a store or on Amazon.
If I were you I'd switch out Detective for Batman and Robin.
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Old September 26 2011, 06:15 AM   #887
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I thought Detective was much better than Batman and Robin.
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Old September 26 2011, 06:58 AM   #888
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

This made me chuckle.
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Old September 26 2011, 08:30 AM   #889
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Without debating the message behind that cartoon, I love how the artist has taken the time to give Starfire a proper 'broken spine' comic pose.
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Old September 26 2011, 09:35 AM   #890
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

@Broc that was hilarious. I'm sure that there were some fans that had the same reaction in real life after reading the issue. Still kind of bizarre what they've done with Kori.

I was ultimately disappointed with Detective and it's because I'm not a Tony Daniels fan at all, I will as I stated see where the Joker arc goes/is resolved but beyond that I'll most likely be dropping the book. So far the only two Bat-Family books I've really enjoyed are "Batman" and "Batman and Robin", followed by "Catwoman", "Batgirl", and then "Red Hood and the Outlaws" which I'm really seriously considering dropping. The only books that have really excited me so far are "Batman" and "Action Comics". Of course I also await the return of "Batman, Inc".
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Old September 26 2011, 11:33 AM   #891
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Couple of other takes on this Catwoman/Starfire stuff:

http://tytempletonart.files.wordpres...d-revised1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WgWIadPivM.../batsncats.jpg
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Old September 26 2011, 02:41 PM   #892
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

@Broc @Zoe - great cartoon editorials on the Catwoman/Starfire "empowerment" issues.


In other related news to the last batch of new #1s this week is the celebration of Aquaman's 70th birthday!! It was this week 70yr ago he first appeared in More Fun Comics #73. Fitting this should be the week for his #1!!

Who's getting Aquaman #1 besides me?
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Old September 26 2011, 02:45 PM   #893
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
@Broc that was hilarious. I'm sure that there were some fans that had the same reaction in real life after reading the issue.
There always are. Loss of some readers is factored in.
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Old September 26 2011, 03:18 PM   #894
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Excellent stuff.
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Old September 26 2011, 07:17 PM   #895
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

This one is even better - scroll down about half way down the page:

http://monkeyscandance.tumblr.com/po...based-off-this
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Old September 26 2011, 08:00 PM   #896
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

the G-man wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Dennis wrote: View Post

So, to some degree DC's just acknowledging that it's time to stop pretending that the success of these sorts of stories is or should be considered as outliers or exceptions. While there may be something unavoidably naive at the core of superhero narratives, the industry is not going to be made or broken by the devotion of nine year-old boys, but by intriguing - and yeah, sometimes titillating - a core audience that has grown older and can be appealed to by material that's more sophisticated in presentation and subject matter if not actually more mature in content.
agreed.
The problem with that theory is that it doesn't bring in new readers and hasn't brought in new readers. All it does is titillate a core audience that shrinks every year and, eventually, will be dead.
Who are these "new readers" you speak of? You mean grown ups with cash? The ones who might be more interested in complex storylines and characterizations?

Or teenagers, who don't really read comics anymore, and would rather spend their money on video games that provide hours of entertainment?

Yeah. It's grown ups with cash.

Now, I agree with you, that ultimately, it's a shrinking audience, and new readers will slow the bleeding, maybe flatten the curve... but kids aren't really jumping into comics. Certainly not with the new DCU.
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Old September 26 2011, 08:44 PM   #897
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Who are these "new readers" you speak of? You mean grown ups with cash? The ones who might be more interested in complex storylines and characterizations?
And also random tits. Call it sad, but true.

You know, doubtless there are creative folks who work in the comics medium who can handle adult subject matter - in every sense, both complex storylines as well as your basic sex and violence - with some skill and experience. I'm not sure that these folks have been making superhero comics for DC in the past or that they're among the writers and artists doing so now. Maybe the editors will need to look a bit further afield.
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Old September 26 2011, 08:54 PM   #898
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Dennis wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Who are these "new readers" you speak of? You mean grown ups with cash? The ones who might be more interested in complex storylines and characterizations?
And also random tits. Call it sad, but true.

You know, doubtless there are creative folks who work in the comics medium who can handle adult subject matter - in every sense, both complex storylines as well as your basic sex and violence - with some skill and experience. I'm not sure that these folks have been making superhero comics for DC in the past or that they're among the writers and artists doing so now. Maybe the editors will need to look a bit further afield.
I think that would be an excellent idea. I don't have a problem with sex in my comics, it's when it's handled like a 17 year old is writing it--Kori in Red Hood, Catwoman, etc.
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Old September 26 2011, 09:06 PM   #899
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Give me some good examples of sex in superhero comics "written like an adult is writing it" that is really successfully appealing as a marketing tool.

Whoever coined "sex sells" was not talking about empowerment.

Probably the best that the writers can do in this medium right now is to do the least - support the scenario, where sex and violence are concerned, with as few words as possible, most of them suggestions to the artist - and let the artist do the heavy lifting.

In fact, the two instances causing all the fuss last week pretty much exemplify the two different ways this can fail - the Starfire thing is mostly clumsy, poorly-considered dialogue whereas the Catwoman story, despite reasonable mockery directed at one or two lines of her first-person narration, seems to be mainly being laughed at for the art.

I'm just willing to bet that the artists are more likely to be able improve than the writers.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; September 26 2011 at 09:20 PM.
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Old September 26 2011, 09:24 PM   #900
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Dennis wrote: View Post
Give me some good examples of sex in superhero comics "written like an adult is writing it" that is really successfully appealing as a marketing tool.
The Grell Green Arrow? The sex scene in the Owl Ship in Watchmen was more satire than anything else.

I'm thinking more of like thrillers or paperbacks from the 50s, like Spillane (yeah, NOT empowerment.)


Whoever coined "sex sells" was not talking about empowerment.
True. But that doesn't mean it can't be. However, I don't think sex equals empowerment. Power equals empowerment. Just because you choose who you have sex with, doesn't make you any more or less empowered.

Amanda Waller I think was one of the most empowered characters in the DCU... but I don't know if I want to see a sex scene with her in it. (Well, the old Amanda...)


Probably the best that the writers can do in this medium right now is to do the least - support the scenario, where sex and violence are concerned, with as few words as possible, most of them suggestions to the artist - and let the artist do the heavy lifting.
Yeah. I can see that.
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