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Old August 3 2013, 08:17 PM   #6991
Admiral_Young
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Wonder Woman is my favourite title from the 52'Verse. Essentially from when the first arc ended onward. Just brilliant work.
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Old August 3 2013, 08:32 PM   #6992
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Only the diehard purists hate the current WW book. Azzarello is doing amazing stuff with both WW and the New Gods and there is the Earth One WW to look forward.

Honestly most of the top DC books have a good selection of writers:

Batman: Snyder, Tomasi, Morrison (though Inc just ended)
Superman: Snyder, Pak (when he come on Action)
WW: Azzarello
Green Arrow: Lemire
Aquaman: Johns

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Well, since according to comicbookresources Marvel outsoild DC in june (the latest avaliable sales numbers are from June) apparently people can outdo Johns.
Surely you know that those are the aggregate sales and not just Johns alone or do you really believe he writes all the DC books? And if you look closer, Marvel double ships and has better medium selling titles while DC has a load of badly selling titles dragging them down.

If you look at the June sales, Johns has one book in the top 10, one in the top 20 and an Aquaman book that isn't cancelled. It's not something any writer can emulate. Look at Bendis, his Moon Knight and Spider-Woman were both cancelled and were doing terribly even though he was the Avengers writer and Marvel's top writer at that time.

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Old August 3 2013, 08:35 PM   #6993
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I read the first two issues of wonder Woman. I saw a Hermes who looked like he was born when a smurf had a child with a generic grey alien (the stereotype alien with grey skin and black eyes)/an asgard from Stargate. I also saw wonder woman being an ass, no amazons (becuause they're dead, and were rapists/murders when they were alive anyway) and a stupid story about WW protecting a pregnant woman and being the daughter of zeus (who, knowing this comic, is probably drawn like Papa Smurf). That combined with unimpressive art just made it another mediocre New 52 comic to me. That still makes it a better book than batman or any of the superman stuff, but thats not an accomplishment, and it doesn't make the book worth reading.

The only somewhat interesting appearance of wW in the new 52 was when she showed up in batwoman, but even there she was weird and bloodthirsty (although not as much as in Justice League).

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Only the diehard purists hate the current WW book. Azzarello is doing amazing stuff with both WW and the New Gods and there is the Earth One WW to look forward.

Honestly most of the top DC books have a decent selection of writers:

Batman: Snyder, Tomasi, Morrison (though Inc just ended)
Superman: Snyder, Pak (when he comics on Action)
WW: Azzarello
Green Arrow: Lemire
Aquaman: JOhns

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Well, since according to comicbookresources Marvel outsoild DC in june (the latest avaliable sales numbers are from June) apparently people can outdo Johns.
Surely you know that those are the aggregate sales and not just Johns alone or do you really believe he writes all the DC books? And if you look closer, Marvel double ships and has better medium selling titles while DC has a load of badly selling titles dragging them down.

If you look at the June sales, Johns has one book in the top 10, one in the top 20 and an Aquaman book that isn't cancelled. It's not something any writer can emulate. Look at Bendis, his Moon Knight and Spider-Woman were both cancelled and were doing terribly even though he was the Avengers writer and Marvel's top writer at that time.


Johns sucks in the new 52 no matter how much he sells. Again, I bring up Rob Liefeld. He made a lot of money and sold a lot of books in the 90s, but he still sucked. Justice League sells, but I don't see many people saying its really any good (and I know it isn't since I've been reading it).


Also, compared to Peter david's aquaman, Johns Aquaman is a joke. Its not actually a bad book, its pretty good when its not focusing on the most boring superhero team ever, but its far from the best Aquaman book.
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Old August 3 2013, 08:45 PM   #6994
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Johns Aquaman is the best the character and title have been SINCE Peter David's solo run and Morrison in JLA. Johns has been terrific on Justice League since Jim Lee left as well.

I also agree with House of UIster regarding Superman/Batman. The first issue was a little off, but the second issue Pak nailed it out of the ball park. I am also liking it over Superman Unchained.
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Old August 3 2013, 09:03 PM   #6995
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Johns run of Aquaman is better in that he doesn't try and turn Aquaman into a second rate Namor. He acknowledges Arthur's dual existence as both a prince of Atlantis, the son of a lighthouse keeper and a protector of both sea and land. And Johns certainly doesn't try and write off Mera. I think those were all mistakes on PAD's part.

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Old August 3 2013, 10:25 PM   #6996
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Given the fact that Johns adores Mera that doesn't surprise me at all. If Johns wrote a Mera ongoing or mini-series I would read it. Half the book is about her just as much as it is about Arthur and that is one of the things I love most about it.
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Old August 3 2013, 11:43 PM   #6997
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Johns Aquaman is the best the character and title have been SINCE Peter David's solo run and Morrison in JLA. Johns has been terrific on Justice League since Jim Lee left as well.
Is there another Justice League that I'm not reading (and I'm not talking about JLA, I am reading that, although not for much longer if it doesn't improve)? One where they aren't constantly a-holes to each other? If so, I'd love to read it. I will give Johns and whoever the artist/designer on JL is one compliment. They got rid of the idiotic JL Dark Zatanna Chriss Angel attire. Plus, Johns apparently forgot that New 52 Zatanna isn't, and has never been, a stage magician (she was shown to literally be a magical exotic dancer, something that immediately made me hate the JL Dark writer), yet he drew her as one in the first issue of JL she was in. That is literally the only good thing thats happened in Johns run so far. Besides that, its just a group of narrcisists taking shots at each other, with a little bit of actually doing something every issue (although the doing something is optional in Johns book). Heck, Johns even managed to bungle Hal Jordan in JL, but still write him normally in green Lantern. Thats an accomplishment in bad writing. Cyborg is hilarious because he's had no character development or moments since the first arc and is basically a walking, talking spare utility belt for batman. JL has been bad, but the last issue was just ridiculous. In the last issue, they



I will admit that some New 52 titles aren't for me (like all Star Western), and I can almost understand how people might find enjoyment in Wonder Woman (I think its mediocre, but compared to other new 52 stuff its fairly inoffensive, besides the stuff about the Amazons and Diana's dad being zeus), but this Justice League is just horrible. Its worse than Robinson's pre-reboot League, which was easily the worst JL ever pre New 52 (and I'm including JL Detroit in that statement). Even the worst League's usually don't have all the members hate each other and act like a-holes constantly.

As for Aquaman, I like Mera, but nobody can beat PAD's run. Johns isn't even in the running. I mean, all the issues with the worst super team ever are almost unreadable they're so boring. Besides that its been decent (although police "arresting" Mera still makes no sense to me) but nothing that exciting. Its a solid, decently entertaining book. Not super impressive, but usually a good read.
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Old August 3 2013, 11:50 PM   #6998
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Johns post Jim Lee departure on Justice League has been terrific. Around issue 11 or 12 I think.
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Old August 3 2013, 11:54 PM   #6999
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Why would it matter if Lee left? He was an ok artist, but Johns is the writer, Lee leaving didn't change anything (except maybe WW stopped posing so much for no reason).
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Old August 4 2013, 12:21 AM   #7000
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Jim Lee was co-plotting with Johns.
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Old August 4 2013, 12:25 AM   #7001
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Well, the book hasn't changed very much, so I'm not sure what plotting he was doing. It definately hasn't improved for the most part. I mean, the new JL members were not as big of a-holes as the core members, but everyone else is still completely unlikeable. This book needs Johns to leave to have any chance of improvement, although its been so bad from the beginning having both Johns and lee gone would be the best thing for the book.
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Old August 4 2013, 12:45 AM   #7002
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

All-Star Western, Wonder Woman, Earth 2 and Batman have been the best books of the New 52. Aquaman, Animal Man and Swamp Thing have been pretty good as well.
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Old August 4 2013, 12:50 AM   #7003
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nah there's a big time difference since Lee left. If there wasn't book, I would have dropped the book completely and not given it another chance if it was still the same. It's not perfect either, but it's vastly improved. I also much prefer Ivan Reis too.
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Old August 4 2013, 01:38 AM   #7004
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Ivan Reis is spectacular. He is the love child of Neal Adams and Alan Davis.
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Old August 4 2013, 02:13 AM   #7005
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I'm reading Batman, Batman/Robin, Superman, Action Comics, Batman/Superman, Justice League, JLA, World's Finest, Green Lantern, probably shortly dropping GLC and GL:NG
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