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Old September 20 2011, 10:47 PM   #676
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I think ultimately, going into the nuDCU, don't expect ANYTHING from the past to have remained until EXPLICITLY stated.

Regardless of what they are saying, it's a reboot... just the good bits are being carried over.
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Old September 20 2011, 11:26 PM   #677
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
...Conner's origin can be pretty concise if you let it. "The cloned synthesis of Superman and Lex Luthor."
Right, and my point, sort of, is that there's a virtue to rebooting the character to the beginning and telling that story in just such a concise fashion.

Of course, I'm not really against complicated stories--I'm not really sure anyone is--so long as they're logically and tonally consistent.
I'm not terribly fond of complicated back-stories or origins. "Survivor of a doomed planet," "chosen to police the Universe because he's without fear," "devoted his life to seeking justice after witnessing his parents murder," "bitten by a radioactive spider," "built a suit of armor to escape imprisonment," etc., etc.

The Flash has always had an annoyingly squishy origin - they've retconned the why of it at least twice because the original role of happenstance was seen to be way too great to be credible apparently even in the eyes of readers who buy into bullets bouncing off of people...especially after the exact same accident occurred to his nephew. Over the years various writers on an array of comic titles have attempted to reduce events or aspects of continuity that they saw as too convenient to be credible. John Byrne limited the amount of Kryptonite found on Earth to a single chunk that happened to collide with and attach itself to Kal-El's little starship, on the grounds that previous stories made it look like Krypton exploded into a billion projectiles all aimed squarely at us.

On other subjects, I think it's been indicated by the DC comics folks that the "Death of Superman" is preserved in the same way that "The Killing Joke" has been - but of course they can always change their minds later or, even more simply, never mention it again.

I can't be bothered by it, as I once saw every Superman story I'd read since I was five years old rendered null and void by John Byrne and I enjoyed that pretty thoroughly.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; September 20 2011 at 11:38 PM.
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Old September 20 2011, 11:48 PM   #678
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Okay. I forgot that DiDio had stated Death Of Superman had occurred. I wonder if Lois and Clark have actually been together romantically at all in this relaunch then. Lois was kind of a critical emotional part of that story and it's aftermath. One of the intriguing aspects of this relaunch, at least for me is to see where all this "old" continuity still fits into the relaunch as we progress through it, if at all.


More changes afoot?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/...hange-rumours/
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Old September 20 2011, 11:59 PM   #679
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Okay. I forgot that DiDio had stated Death Of Superman had occurred. I wonder if Lois and Clark have actually been together romantically at all in this relaunch then. Lois was kind of a critical emotional part of that story and it's aftermath. One of the intriguing aspects of this relaunch, at least for me is to see where all this "old" continuity still fits into the relaunch as we progress through it, if at all.
See, that very question is why I think Didio should keep his mouth shut about what IS and ISN'T in continuity. The moment he says this is in, it opens up more questions... and all of it is kind of meaningless, unless they go BACK and tell that story again.

Who cares if the Death of Superman happened or not? How does it affect the present?
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Old September 21 2011, 12:20 AM   #680
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ I kind of said I did care but yeah I see your point.
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Old September 21 2011, 01:09 AM   #681
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I have to assume that any wildly popular/famous story is still in continuity. That means of the recent Superman stories... Death/Return of Superman and the Johns / New Krypton saga. Other stuff like Electric Blue Superman, meh.

I would assume that Knightfall / Knight's End still happened. That No Man's Land still happened.

I just read Omac #1. One of the classic appearance New Gods was in it?! Does this mean that Final Crisis didn't happen? Because on the one hand it was a pretty unpopular story... on the other hand DC Golden Boy Grant Morrison wrote it.
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Old September 21 2011, 01:09 AM   #682
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Mr Light wrote: View Post
I have to assume that any wildly popular/famous story is still in continuity.
As a practical matter I'd say that's a safe assumption.
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Old September 21 2011, 01:11 AM   #683
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I wouldn't assume that at all actually. The Batman stuff could be theoretically all still in tact but I wouldn't assume that recent stories and events happened for Superman. Else why completely reboot him?
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Old September 21 2011, 01:14 AM   #684
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

The point of rebooting something like Superman isn't to wipe the slate clean, but to simplify an introduction to it for new readers/viewers - and then to pretty much make free use of any previous material that appeals to the folks doing the reboot, without having to be concerned with importing every bit of baggage that they consider to have been troublesome. It's kind of like asking why bring back Lois Lane and Luthor if they're completely rebooting Superman.

They're telling Superman's early history in Action and, in part, in Justice League - but they have an ongoing Superman title which assumes that he's been around for five or six years and has presumably had quite a few adventures during that time. There's no reason at all that they shouldn't decree that some of those "past" adventures include events from the previous incarnation that they like and think that long-time fans like (and/or that received enough mainstream publicity over the years that newbies might be aware of them). Byrne completely rebooted Superman, and then almost immediately retold the Bizarro story with some changes.

Frankly, it costs them nothing to try to satisfy anxious old-timers by answering "yes" to the question of whether Supes still "died," and then simply never bring it up at all in the comic in the future if that's what they decide is best (unlikely).
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Old September 21 2011, 01:14 AM   #685
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I wouldn't assume that at all actually. The Batman stuff could be theoretically all still in tact but I wouldn't assume that recent stories and events happened for Superman. Else why completely reboot him?
The thing is you can either assume it's all in, and then be contradicted, or assume it's all out, and then be contradicted.

Basically, wait and see. And again, for the most part, those stories don't have much, if at all, impact on the current story. How is No Man's Land impacting now? Superman Red/Blue? The Death of Superman?
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Old September 21 2011, 01:16 AM   #686
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I know of all that, I was addressing Mr. Light's rather grandiose assumptions. That's kind of like trying to cram two continuities into one...oh wait...
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Old September 21 2011, 01:37 AM   #687
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I'd guess the "death" of Superman happened, but not necessarily "The Death of Superman".
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Old September 21 2011, 01:58 AM   #688
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I wonder if they'll eventually do "remakes" of those stories. A Death of Superman where Luthor is not a red-haired clone of himself and Supergirl is not a protoplasm blob
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Old September 21 2011, 02:36 AM   #689
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Now, if Super-heroes have been around for five to six years comic time, that means about twenty to thirty years of real time comic book stories could have taken place.
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Old September 21 2011, 02:40 AM   #690
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Most comic books only take place over 1-2 days. And each comic ends on a cliffhanger that leads right into the next. So 700 issues of Superman would only equal 1,400 days, or 3.8 years.
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