DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[kirk55555]

I'm assuming it means Superman will now be more like the Punisher, going around without the "chains" of morality and just killing people. Since this is the grim and gritty New 52, and Snyder sucks, its either than or it will start a storyline setting up a super long crossover where superman will fight one of the new 52's 500 secret, never before seen organisations that will beat Superman up and prove that, in the end, he's a wimpy crybaby (In case you can't tell, I think Court of Owls is the worst Batman crossover ever, and really hate Snyder). But, I suppose you really can't ruin the character anymore then they already have. The shippers have already taken over and started writing their Superman/Wonder Woman fanfic in the comics, his main book is about as interesting as watching grass grow so you really can't do anything more to Superman. I just wish they'd stop beating his dead body.

[Hound of UIster]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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I guess my question would be: was Superman ever CHAINED? Hasn't he ALWAYS been UNchained? It at least makes sense for Django.

Yes he was.

It is one of the iconic images of him.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/03/04/how-superman-unchained-goes-straight-to-the-brand/

[Fist McStrongpunch]

kirk55555 wrote:

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But, I suppose you really can't ruin the character anymore then they already have. The shippers have already taken over and started writing their Superman/Wonder Woman fanfic in the comics, his main book is about as interesting as watching grass grow so you really can't do anything more to Superman. I just wish they'd stop beating his dead body.

There is so so much wrong with your post, but it's all opinion-type stuff, so I'll leave them be. But are you aware they have actively stated that the relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman is bad and wrong and not what is supposed to happen in the timestream? It's in the final ish of JLI.

[kirk55555]

I read all of the (severly dissapointing) New 52 JLI run, and I don't recall ever seeing Superman or WW. What I do see is Superman and WW kissing, and the kiss being shown even in books they aren't a part of. I also saw them going on atleast one date. So, apparently its not wrong enough (or, most likely, the writers ignore anything that would have been mentioned in a book like JLI) and just went with their fanfic idea and just keep pushing it.

[OdoWanKenobi]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I'm assuming it means Superman will now be more like the Punisher, going around without the "chains" of morality and just killing people. Since this is the grim and gritty New 52, and Snyder sucks, its either than or it will start a storyline setting up a super long crossover where superman will fight one of the new 52's 500 secret, never before seen organisations that will beat Superman up and prove that, in the end, he's a wimpy crybaby (In case you can't tell, I think Court of Owls is the worst Batman crossover ever, and really hate Snyder). But, I suppose you really can't ruin the character anymore then they already have. The shippers have already taken over and started writing their Superman/Wonder Woman fanfic in the comics, his main book is about as interesting as watching grass grow so you really can't do anything more to Superman. I just wish they'd stop beating his dead body.

I'm sensing a pattern, here. Do you just hate everything that the majority of other people like? With you it's been Snyder sucks, Johns sucks, Nolan sucks. Who exactly do you like?

[Mike Farley]

Chris Sprouse has pulled out of his digital Adventures of Superman story with Orson Scott Card.

link

On the plus side this moves Jeff Parker and Chris Samnee's story into the launch position while they try to find a new artist for Card's tale.

[Hound of UIster]

I bet that OSC story is going to get binned. There is just too much negative publicity associated with that story and the book.

[OdoWanKenobi]

I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I believe in critiquing the art and not the artist. On the other hand, Orson Scott Card is a piece of shit and I absolutely refuse to put any of my money in his hands.

[Mike Farley]

Who would step forward to illustrate Card's story at this point? Even if they agreed with his positions (and let's not fool ourselves, there are people working in the industry that do), the bad press is pretty much insurmountable.

[Allyn Gibson]

Mike Farley wrote:

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Who would step forward to illustrate Card's story at this point? Even if they agreed with his positions (and let's not fool ourselves, there are people working in the industry that do), the bad press is pretty much insurmountable.

I imagine Summit Entertainment's execs are watching this brouhaha carefully. If comic book fandom and the industry can get this worked up over Card's bigotry, they have to be worried about the general public going apeshit when the Ender's Game film exposes Card to people outside the sci-fi ghetto.

[Fist McStrongpunch]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I read all of the (severly dissapointing) New 52 JLI run, and I don't recall ever seeing Superman or WW. What I do see is Superman and WW kissing, and the kiss being shown even in books they aren't a part of. I also saw them going on atleast one date. So, apparently its not wrong enough (or, most likely, the writers ignore anything that would have been mentioned in a book like JLI) and just went with their fanfic idea and just keep pushing it.

It was heavily implied that Superman and Wonder Woman getting together erased Booster and future Booster from the timeline and is something that needs to be put right. There is a story they're doing here.

[Hound of UIster]

Comics is a niche fandom. The mainstream population's opinions are closer to OSC's. Look at all the support Chick-fil-a got. It'll be the same for his movie.

[Professor Zoom]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I'm assuming it means Superman will now be more like the Punisher, going around without the "chains" of morality and just killing people.

Yeah, I think you're probably wrong.

Hound of UIster wrote:

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Yes he was.

It is one of the iconic images of him.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/03/...-to-the-brand/

Yeah, I saw those. But, aren't they showing that chains can't really hold him? So, again, he's always been unchained.

I know it's semantics. But, it's just such a silly title....

OdoWanKenobi wrote:

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I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I believe in critiquing the art and not the artist. On the other hand, Orson Scott Card is a piece of shit and I absolutely refuse to put any of my money in his hands.

That's where I am. I don't want my money to be used to prevent others from getting equal rights. Maybe if he wasn't sitting the board of an organization ACTIVELY pursuing discrimination... but...

Hound of UIster wrote:

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Comics is a niche fandom. The mainstream population's opinions are closer to OSC's. Look at all the support Chick-fil-a got. It'll be the same for his movie.

I don't know, more than 50% of this country supports gay marriage, so, mainstream is not closer to OSC's opinion. Whether or not the general population is motivated enough, or cares enough to not show up to the movie is an entirely different question.

[kirk55555]

OdoWanKenobi wrote:

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I'm sensing a pattern, here. Do you just hate everything that the majority of other people like? With you it's been Snyder sucks, Johns sucks, Nolan sucks. Who exactly do you like?

Well, Johns is ok on GL, and I love his JSA and Justice Society runs, so he did have the ability to write good stuff, he's just devolved as a writer the same way James Robinson has (they were both good writers, now they suck, although Johns does have the ability to write good stuff at times, like GL, while Robinson is just terrible most of the time). As for current writers at DC, I like Batwoman, Demon Knights, Legion of Superheros (but NOT Legion Lost), the GL books (although Red Lanterns isn't great, just ok), so the people who write them are obviously decent.

World's Finest is also entertaining, but not on the same level because, while its good, its far inferior to the versions of PG and Huntress from the old DCU, especially PG, who is my third favorite superhero (after the original Captain Marvel and She-Hulk) but is now a complete slut who literally gets what she wants by screwing (and outright theft). Still, she atleast still has something of a personality to go with her inability to close her legs, unlike Sexfire...I mean Starfire. Huntress is ok, but not great. Earth 2 is an ok read, although I don't like any of the changes to the heroes. The government being evil (trying to capture alan/jay/Hawkgirl, hiring the homicidally insane Mr. Terrific, etc) is also annoying me, as is Atom and Sandman being government puppets (threatening jay's Mom officially makes Sandman evil). I have no idea why Soloman Grundy now wears a dress (and even if it is technically something besides a dress, I don't think anyone can defend his new look as being better than the classic grundy, and Jay Garrick is in the same boat, although his is slughtly more tolerable, since atleast it doesn't have a skirt). I also prefer Alan scott with a wife and kids, so I just don't like this Alan. I'm fine with gay characters, I just like old Alan better. Plus, the whole dead fiancee thing is a bit annoying, too.

Besides those books, the rest is completely worthless. I read JL and JLA just to laugh at how horribly bad they are. Its funny that johns can even ruin Stargirl, a character he created. I can't wait until the storyline where she shaves her head to fit in with her celebrity friends. Or, maybe she'll get drunk and start making racist comments. I'm sure its coming soon. Its also hilarious how Cyborg has had almost no character development at all since JL #1 or 2. He's basically Batman's walking, talking second utility belt. Black Vulcan in superfriends was a deeper character. Of course, the ruining of Captain Marvel (my favorite superhero) is my most hated thing in the New 52, and it happens to be part of JL sometimes, so thats painful to read. Still, I feel the need to stay up on how badly DC destroys my favorite superhero. Also, JLD sucks. Of course my favorite hero on the JLD team, Zatanna, went from being an awesome magician to literally a stripper who dresses like Chriss Angel. Of the big three, superman is borign, Wonder Woman is stupid and rehashing the old "Wonder Woman is from an island and doesn't know the real world" thing that all the horrible WW writers did, but this time with some berserker rage built in. Scott Snyder is the second worse Batman writer after frank miller, but atleast All Star Superman wouldn't make me fall asleep like Court of Owls did.

So, to summarize, I like a few DC books, but most of it is garbage and the best books are the ones that have basically remained unchanged (GL and Batwoman). Demon Knights is the best of the books created for the New 52, but it literally could have worked in the old DCU with probably no changes whatsoever, so I don't count it as a good DCU book. I used to evenly like Marvel and DC (with maybe a slight leaning towards Marvel), now Marvel wins, hands down. I still love a lot of DC characters, but I like the real versions, not the ones written by the brainless idiots who are such a big part of DC. I liked a lot of books right before the reboot. The new 52 was just a poorly thought out reboot, that didn;t make one improvement. The great stuff retained the status quo from Pre 52, the some of the good new stuff could have been done before, and the rest of the good is ok but far inferior to the old. The rest is just bad, much of it (like JL) making early Image look almost competent.

Professor Zoom wrote:

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Yeah, I think you're probably wrong.

I was mostly joking, although DC is almost dark enough to do it. Its already channeling the spirit of early Image, so it wouldn't be too surprising to see something like this.

[Professor Zoom]

DC is DARK? Maybe some of the Joker story... but... DARK?