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Old February 17 2012, 01:46 AM   #3466
Admiral_Young
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ Ding Ding Ding!!! I agree a hundred percent with this assessment.
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Old February 17 2012, 01:52 AM   #3467
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It could be going on in his mind, however, at this time nothing has shown that beyond Batman the last couple issues basically being a fanboy wank material of him being invulnerable to basic human needs and being able to "Hulk Out" and beomce a Liefeldian abomination of a creature.
Hulk out? I think there is a serious disconnect between you and the rest of the audience. Those scenes are clearly indications that he is suffering mentally and physically vulnerable due to the time he spent in the labyrinth without food and drinking the drugged water. Much of the last issue was his mind slowly becoming disoriented as he wandered through the place. This issue really was Bruce losing it, as we see in the more cartoonish scenes you panned and which undoubtedly were hallucinations. But also it was about Bruce recovering and pulling the rug out from under Talon and the Court. The differences are laid bare in the art styles. The ones in his mind are very stylistic reminiscent of a horror comic like Spawn while the scenes set in reality are less so.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear. And a nice use of art... that the art itself can be a part of telling the story, and not just be storyboards for the words.
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Old February 17 2012, 02:10 AM   #3468
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
It could be going on in his mind, however, at this time nothing has shown that beyond Batman the last couple issues basically being a fanboy wank material of him being invulnerable to basic human needs and being able to "Hulk Out" and beomce a Liefeldian abomination of a creature.
Hulk out? I think there is a serious disconnect between you and the rest of the audience. Those scenes are clearly indications that he is suffering mentally and physically vulnerable due to the time he spent in the labyrinth without food and drinking the drugged water. Much of the last issue was his mind slowly becoming disoriented as he wandered through the place. This issue really was Bruce losing it, as we see in the more cartoonish scenes you panned and which undoubtedly were hallucinations. But also it was about Bruce recovering and pulling the rug out from under Talon and the Court. The differences are laid bare in the art styles. The ones in his mind are very stylistic reminiscent of a horror comic like Spawn while the scenes set in reality are less so.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear. And a nice use of art... that the art itself can be a part of telling the story, and not just be storyboards for the words.
Indeed. The switch between the Owl creatures and the regular folks in masks in alternating panels is a dead give away and should be obvious.

As for Batman surviving all the torture and abuse. He's Batman! Highly trained mentally and physically. Surviving is what he does. He's not "normal" by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old February 17 2012, 02:12 AM   #3469
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ Exactly.
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Old February 17 2012, 02:41 AM   #3470
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Hulk out? I think there is a serious disconnect between you and the rest of the audience. Those scenes are clearly indications that he is suffering mentally and physically vulnerable due to the time he spent in the labyrinth without food and drinking the drugged water. Much of the last issue was his mind slowly becoming disoriented as he wandered through the place. This issue really was Bruce losing it, as we see in the more cartoonish scenes you panned and which undoubtedly were hallucinations. But also it was about Bruce recovering and pulling the rug out from under Talon and the Court. The differences are laid bare in the art styles. The ones in his mind are very stylistic reminiscent of a horror comic like Spawn while the scenes set in reality are less so.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear. And a nice use of art... that the art itself can be a part of telling the story, and not just be storyboards for the words.
Indeed. The switch between the Owl creatures and the regular folks in masks in alternating panels is a dead give away and should be obvious.

As for Batman surviving all the torture and abuse. He's Batman! Highly trained mentally and physically. Surviving is what he does. He's not "normal" by any stretch of the imagination.
He's still a mortal man who needs food, water and sleep and being stabbed through the torso is going to cause him pain and to bleed badly. He's not had much food or sleep (if any) in several days and only some drugged water. It's a stretch to think he can just shrug off being stabbed through the chest and then provide anything of a fight. It's just, for me, a stretch. And I think his exaggerated looks for the "mental story" could have been done better without getting silly looking. (The splash page of him "Hulking out" just isn't attractive to me with the scattering of the little owl people and just the proportions and lines on the body/grin of his teeth.

Not much my style, I suppose. But the art is one thing and fairly minor, my biggest problem is how "unbeatable" and over-powered he came across in this issue. It'd be one thing if he managed to escape with all of his injuries and mental break down, got treatment and re-organized he thoughts and plans and then went back in to kick ass but that didn't happen here.

He spent a week without food, minimal water and likely little to no sleep, he got stabbed through the chest, beaten to a pulp and still he manages to rage out, pose a threat to the enemy and even shatter his way through marble? Tough to buy and makes Batman a wee bit "overpowered" and probably as "overpowered" as people claim Superman to be. I thought the appeal of Batman was that his weakness was that he was still a mortal human and stuff like this did pose a threat. If he survived everything he's been through in the last week of his life it seems like there's little that can stop him which makes him a bit over-powered.

As I said above I liked this title better when it was Batman going around being the World's Greatest Detective, figuring things out and actually seemed somewhat human (like when he was stabbed and tossed out a window). In this issue? He seemed more meta-human and not much of a detective. He gets mentally and physically beaten over the course of a week, severely stabbed and he still manages to rage out into an unbeatable monster, defeat his foe and smash marble (which, yes, isn't exactly the strongest stuff but still it's pretty tough.) It's a leap and a stretch for me, I can't wait until this book gets back to Batman going around being a detective, figuring things out, and the "character" of Gotham comes back (again, what I felt was one of the nicest part of the first few issues.)

Las month's issue was good in displaying Batman's descent into a madness because of the mental torture he's been through for a few days. In this issue he stopped being human and became, well, something else entirely.
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Old February 17 2012, 02:43 AM   #3471
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

He's a comic book character.
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Old February 17 2012, 02:46 AM   #3472
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

So.... things don't have to make sense or follow any logic?
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Old February 17 2012, 02:58 AM   #3473
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

They do, but you don't seem to be following what's going on in the book, as others have pointed out. Plus Batman has always been depicted as being indomitable and unbeatable. This is why you have so many of these wacked out psychopaths trying to be the one who finally beats him. Batman is also someone who has recovered fully from having his spine shattered. I don't think you've got the full scope of Synder's story Trekker personally, no offense. Maybe you're looking for other things that the other books are providing story and character wise.
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Old February 17 2012, 03:07 AM   #3474
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I'm following what is going on, I'm just saying I don't like it and it doesn't make sense.
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Old February 17 2012, 03:09 AM   #3475
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

It does to the rest of us...we've pointed out what is going on and the logic behind it as well.
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Old February 17 2012, 03:14 AM   #3476
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Still doesn't mean I have to like it. It's not working for me. This still remains my favorite Batman book but this issue didn't impress, I liked the book better before he got captured by the CoO.

I have what I'm willing to accept for Batman when it comes to his "powers" and abilities and what's happened in this issue doesn't fit inside of that (assuming it's reality.)
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Old February 17 2012, 03:17 AM   #3477
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I didn't say you had to like or not. I have stated earlier in the thread myself that I haven't liked elements of this because it reminds me too much of RIP and Dr. Hurt's psychological and physical assault upon Bruce. I've also voiced concerned that this is going to be stretched into an event within the Bat-Family titles. I just disagree with you on the other stuff we've touched upon. It will be interesting to see what Synder continues to do with this arc.
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Old February 17 2012, 03:21 AM   #3478
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
So.... things don't have to make sense or follow any logic?
It makes sense and is logical in the world in which Batman exists.
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Old February 17 2012, 04:33 PM   #3479
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

PRI's The World, a radio news program heard on some public radio stations in the US, ran a story on Batwing yesterday. Judd Winick talks about the character, the world he inhabits, and the political themes of the book.
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Old February 17 2012, 08:18 PM   #3480
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

This was a light week for me so I went back and picked up Huntress #2 & #3.

I now remember why I was waiting on the trade. It's a very pedestrian story. The art is great it's just not a story worth 6 issues. Half that at best would suffice.
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