DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Admiral_Young]

That'd be cool but not what DC first pumped it up as. As I said DiDio specifically stated we'd be seeing the return of the JSA in it. Of course it could be the JSA existed in the early history of this new world as well. That's a possibility. The project revealed so far seems weird to me.

[Nerys Myk]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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That'd be cool but not what DC first pumped it up as. As I said DiDio specifically stated we'd be seeing the return of the JSA in it. Of course it could be the JSA existed in the early history of this new world as well. That's a possibility. The project revealed so far seems weird to me.

How is it not the return of the JSA? It may not feature the JSA as last seen or the preCrisis version, but the title/concept is returning.

[Admiral_Young]

If it turns out to be the case that this is some new version of the Justice Society, that's fine. DC should have clarified if they were going to be an new, alternate universe version of the team. Instead of just saying the JSA would be back. As others have stated in the book the incarnation of the team fans want to see back are the Wildcat, Dr. Fate, etc version. As I have stated before, I just find it intriguing (weird was too harsh) with the direction they're going with this. Especially when James Robinson is the writer.

[Nerys Myk]

Well it has to be a new version because the older version was linked to the previous continuity and this version is set in a parallel universe. Didn't Robinson drop hints about Wildcat, Flash and Green Lantern in an interview? I can understand how seeing Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman on a JSA cover can throw fans of the post-COIE JSA for a loop. They aren't used to seeing them as members. For oldtimers like me on the other hand it's like "going home". . I Can't wait to see what's different and what's the same.

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah it will be interesting to get the actual details from the project. I did mention this was a case of overreacting haha I'm familiar with the big three's history with the JSA but yeah for a variant cover to feature them is an interesting choice.

[Derishton]

We knew there had to be an Earth-2 Batman and Catwoman because of the revelations concerning Huntress, and I guess we know there's a generational thing at work. I strongly suspect we see various legacy characters end up here: that WW is probably Donna, and I think we'll see Wally. This is as much a revamped Robinbson JLA as it is JSA, maybe?

[the G-man]

So, basically, DC's latest "innovation" is to remake what Gerry Conway and Paul Levitz did 30+ years ago in "All Star comics" with JSA and the Super Squad.

[Nerys Myk]

the G-man wrote:

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So, basically, DC's latest "innovation" is to remake what Gerry Conway and Paul Levitz did 30+ years ago in "All Star comics" with JSA and the Super Squad.

Comics reviving and revitalizing past concepts????? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

[Derishton]

Sure, it's Conway, but possibly it's Conway combined with the Wein/Perez Teen Titans.

[Nerys Myk]

Shouldn't that be Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans?

[Derishton]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Shouldn't that be Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans?

Yes. Yes, it should.

[Nerys Myk]

The "legacy" angle is what makes the JSA different than other superteams. Without that, its just the JLA by a different name. Which is what it was until Robin became a member in the 1960s ( sporting one of the worst costumes in history). The "Super-Squad" era helped cement that with the inclusion of Power Girl, the Star Spangled Kid and the Huntress. The 1999 revival was pretty much built around that concept.

[the G-man]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Comics reviving and revitalizing past concepts????? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

Oh, I understand that. What I don't understand is why it has to be like that or, more to the point, why DC thinks bringing back a concept that was based on nostalgia in the first place, and has always been so, is the way to attract the elusive "new readers."

The original JSA stories are approximately seventy years old. The first JSA/JLA team up is closing on on fifty years ago. The Super Squad stories are getting close to being forty years old.

In contrast, the supposed "new reader" is going to be (I'll guess) 25 years old or less. I'm guessing DC had hoped even younger than that. World War II, for those potential readers, is as remote a concept as the Civil War was for readers in the golden age.

Furthermore, most of the GA heroes were rebooted several times since then, in an effort to make them more relevant to the new readers of that time: Jay Garrick became Barry Allen who became Wally West who became Barry Allen again. Allen Scott became Hal Jordan who became John Stewart/Kyle Rayner and then Hal again. Al Pratt became Ray Palmer. Ultimately, it begs the question: if the GA JSA was still relevant to more than a handful of nostalgia fans, why did/does DC have to keep replacing them with new versions?

What it really points out is that DC really has no idea how to attract new readers. They're basically still just recycling the same stuff into reboots and wondering why no one cares after the first few "collectible" issues.

[C_Miller]

And the proof is in the pudding (What the hell kind of phrase is that?)

The Golden Age JSA has never really seen much success post Golden Age and even in the Golden Age it never got its own book. They had occasional appearances in anthology series' and a series in the third volume of All-Star Comics that only lasted 17 issues. The All-Star Squadron comic lasted 67 issues, but it featured kind of Golden Age DC as a whole rather than focus on a few people. They had two very short lives series' in the early 90s and then that brings us to the 1999 relaunch which was insanely successful as was the relaunch of that in 2008.

I don't want to say it was the legacy characters that made it successful or Johns writing the best work he will ever do. But either way, something clicked and I'm a bit worried that they'll be throwing that away. I mean, that's what got me into the characters.

[Nerys Myk]

the G-man wrote:

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Oh, I understand that. What I don't understand is why it has to be like that or, more to the point, why DC thinks bringing back a concept that was based on nostalgia in the first place, and has always been so, is the way to attract the elusive "new readers."

The original JSA stories are approximately seventy years old. The first JSA/JLA team up is closing on on fifty years ago. The Super Squad stories are getting close to being forty years old.

In contrast, the supposed "new reader" is going to be (I'll guess) 25 years old or less. I'm guessing DC had hoped even younger than that. World War II, for those potential readers, is as remote a concept as the Civil War was for readers in the golden age.

Furthermore, most of the GA heroes were rebooted several times since then, in an effort to make them more relevant to the new readers of that time: Jay Garrick became Barry Allen who became Wally West who became Barry Allen again. Allen Scott became Hal Jordan who became John Stewart/Kyle Rayner and then Hal again. Al Pratt became Ray Palmer. Ultimately, it begs the question: if the GA JSA was still relevant to more than a handful of nostalgia fans, why did/does DC have to keep replacing them with new versions?

What it really points out is that DC really has no idea how to attract new readers. They're basically still just recycling the same stuff into reboots and wondering why no one cares after the first few "collectible" issues.

The JSA has had an ongoing series since 1999, IIRC it was pretty successful, too. So its appeal goes beyond WWII/Golden Age nostalgia. The team and its members have gained new fans.

As to why they revive/revamp/replace and return to old concepts. The reason is simple they were successful and have name recognition. The same reason Ford revived the Mustang name and VW the Beetle. Basic marketing. Plus they own those names.

Though when DC revamped their heroes/concepts in the late 50s and early 60 they weren't really counting on "nostalgia". They assumed anyone who read about Jay Garrick would have given up on comics by the time Barry Allen appeared. So the Flash was a "new" concept to the audience. Of course they were soon proven wrong and the readers got "Flash of Two Worlds". Which proved popular with readers, even those who never heard of Jay Garrick before that issue. I know I had never heard of Alan Scott the first time I read a Green Lantern comic. I picked it up because it looked cool. Though the first GL comic I bought was a crossover featuring Alan Scott, which prompted my life long interest in GA heroes. I wasn't old enough for nostalgia at that time.

I don't think DC or Marvel cares about the under 25 market anymore.