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Old September 9 2011, 01:07 AM   #271
Nerys Myk
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

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In all honesty I wouldn't be having the same problems with this if they actually had the balls to do a hard reboot. I have a hard time swallowing that Batman and Green Lantern have little to no changes, yet they have a complete reboot of Green Arrow where he's practically unrecognizable.

I actually want them to fully reboot the DCU, if they want to do a reboot at all. It's the halfway stuff that's making this fan uneasy.
I would have liked a hard reboot too. Even if it means saying goodby to Kyle,Jason, Tim, Damian, Cassie and the rest of the "Next Generation". Though I can deal with the cards we've been dealt. Batman and GLs histories are more or less intact. The rest of the line have histories that are yet to be explored. Not really that big of deal.
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Old September 9 2011, 01:41 AM   #272
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

C_Miller wrote: View Post
In all honesty I wouldn't be having the same problems with this if they actually had the balls to do a hard reboot. I have a hard time swallowing that Batman and Green Lantern have little to no changes, yet they have a complete reboot of Green Arrow where he's practically unrecognizable.

I actually want them to fully reboot the DCU, if they want to do a reboot at all. It's the halfway stuff that's making this fan uneasy.
Personally, this IS a hard reboot. They are just carrying over the stuff that worked. Which is really sorta what they did the last (2?) time.

After Crisis On Infinite Earths, everyone had to wait and read to see what was kept and what was contradicted.

The same for the whole New Earth thing.

Don't listen to Dido's "relaunch" language--which is really just an appeal to the fan community. It's a reboot. We're just coming in in the middle of the story.
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Old September 9 2011, 02:04 AM   #273
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nerys Myk wrote:
Why anyone would want the DC heroes to be a bunch of middle age guys pushing 50 is puzzling. Then again a lot of the fanbase is made up of middle age guys.
On the contrary. I want them all to be dead.

But I suppose, failing that, I would prefer them to be old. It's the Watchmen, Sandman, Miracleman, Dark Knight Returns (I could go on) thing: old, tired, broken people tend to be more interesting than young bucks who have only had a few years to develop their neuroses.

Also, if Ted Kord's gonna stay dead, then fuck Ollie Queen.
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Old September 9 2011, 02:16 AM   #274
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

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Old September 9 2011, 02:29 AM   #275
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Which part?

If I could go back in time and steal Mike Carlin's job, I probably still would have brought Superman back to life. He gets a pass, because he's Jesus. I would, however, mandate the term "super-resurrection."

But if I could go back in time and steal Dan DiDio's job, I'd have never brought back, or permitted the return of, Hal Jordan (as contrasted to, importantly, the Green Lantern Corps itself), Barry Allen, Ollie Queen, Bruce Wayne (I know, he wasn't really dead), or Ted Kord. Or anybody.

Except, maybe, I might've, but only on the condition that all of them were reclaimed in Blackest Night. That would've been pretty epic, and not the faux epic creation myth that even Johns has admitted was a bit of a mistake.

If we consider the relaunch as a hard reboot, I have no principled objection to Ollie Queen, etc., being alive again. I only have my preferences there.

As for the old fart preference, I'm a little less serious about that. Any character, or just about any character, is capable of being written in an interesting manner. I might prefer narratives about old people who long for the release of death (my taste in novels and films runs in that direction, too), but that's only because I'm a pessimistic dude.

I wasn't very serious about my Green Arrow/Red Arrow pitch. Or was I? The first chapter could be called "Samsara & Smack."
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Old September 9 2011, 02:40 AM   #276
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I never would have killed any of them to begin with. Just write them better.
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Old September 9 2011, 02:41 AM   #277
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I would read Samsara & Smack.
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Old September 9 2011, 02:53 AM   #278
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I never would have killed any of them to begin with. Just write them better.
I'd have killed Barry, for sure. That was the one great moment to occur in Crisis.

I really like the idea of Hal's fall and redemption, although 1)I'd have chosen a better name than "Parallax" ("the apparent displacement or difference in the apparent of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines"--wow, cool); and 2)yeah, it ought to have been written better, although it had some neat moments.

I'd probably have killed Ted Kord, too. That definitely needed to be written better, but the idea was fundamentally sound.

Bruce Wayne? Maybe. Not via Darkseid, probably a death spiral with the Joker, or Bane. Or, maybe better, a random bullet, ala Black and White.

Ollie Queen? AIDS, obviously.

Steve Mollman wrote:
I would read Samsara & Smack.
Despite myself, I've actually blue-skied half of a plot to the silly thing.

Actually, I wonder if smack sort of dates it. Mark Renton and Sick Boy are pushing 50 these days themselves. Do people even still do heroin anymore?
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Old September 9 2011, 03:41 AM   #279
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I never would have killed any of them to begin with. Just write them better.
I'd have killed Barry, for sure. That was the one great moment to occur in Crisis.
It was worth Barry's death just for the great story Robert Loren Fleming gave us in Secret Origins Annual #2. The idea was perfectly set up; Barry was bouncing backward in time as he died on his final run, and in those last moments, he turned into the very energy that formed the lightning bolt that gave him his powers. As Fleming summed up - electricity flows in a circuit. In his final sacrifice, Barry Allen showed that he became a super hero because he was willing to be a super hero.
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Old September 9 2011, 03:43 AM   #280
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I never would have killed any of them to begin with. Just write them better.
I'd have killed Barry, for sure. That was the one great moment to occur in Crisis.
It was worth Barry's death just for the great story Robert Loren Fleming gave us in Secret Origins Annual #2. The idea was perfectly set up; Barry was bouncing backward in time as he died on his final run, and in those last moments, he turned into the very energy that formed the lightning bolt that gave him his powers. As Fleming summed up - electricity flows in a circuit. In his final sacrifice, Barry Allen showed that he became a super hero because he was willing to be a super hero.
Oh, I almost mentioned that. I love that story. It's a really amazing little closed timelike curve.
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Old September 9 2011, 03:56 AM   #281
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Instead of a hard reboot I would have just started up an Ultimate style line which in some ways the 52'Verse would appear to be. I would keep the regular "New Earth" continuity while starting up the new line. You could even call it 52'Verse like I do. Or 52DCU if you wanted to.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:42 AM   #282
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

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Instead of a hard reboot I would have just started up an Ultimate style line which in some ways the 52'Verse would appear to be. I would keep the regular "New Earth" continuity while starting up the new line. You could even call it 52'Verse like I do. Or 52DCU if you wanted to.
Same here. Then the wouldn't have had to do all that resetting the numbering B.S. and undoing characters like Oracle that turned me off DC cold turkey. Last week was the first week in 5 years I never bought a single DC Comic. This week I picked up a couple of independents and Doctor Who Magazine and that was about it. (I saw the cover of the new Detective and man it's ugly.) I put the money I'd have spent on DC towards the new Nikita Blu-ray set. The only DC I plan to buy in the near future is the final issue of Detective which I missed due to being on holiday and it's sold out everywhere.

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Old September 9 2011, 06:42 AM   #283
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Instead of a hard reboot I would have just started up an Ultimate style line which in some ways the 52'Verse would appear to be. I would keep the regular "New Earth" continuity while starting up the new line. You could even call it 52'Verse like I do. Or 52DCU if you wanted to.
I completely agree with a hard reboot. It strikes me as a little silly when, with the alternate Earths, DC has a built in mechanism for a reboot and they never use it.

Just move the action to another Earth--stop making up multiple ones for every Elseworlds story--when you want a reboot.

If COIE and IC were left intact but suddenly one Earth was the Golden Age, another was the Silver Age, another the Bronze Age, Post Crisis/New Earth, and now the RELaunched Earth then you actually to get to have your cake and eat it too.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:51 AM   #284
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I sort of agree with that statement. My "plan" would have been to relaunch all of the lesser books with jumping on points. I miss those. Back when I got into comics every year and a half or so, comics would have a jumping on point where stories were continued, but the characters were somewhat reintroduced and the book was made accesible to the new reader. So I would have done that on all the books like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern and others. They would have all started at #1 to make advertising easier. And DC would use this time to do some experimentation with books that they are currently with the Dark line and the Edge line. I would have kept Detective Comics and Action Comics in their original numbering and I would have kept them as anthology titles, but still run based. People get to have a free run at the Bat family or the Superman family respective without worries of timelines and what not.

I also would have created an Ultimate line, except not called that. DC should have done this years ago when they were on a film kick (Batman Begins, Superman Returns, The Dark Knight). I'd have Ultimate Batman, Ultimate Superman and Ultimate Justice League (Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, The Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and maybe a couple others). I also may have a Green Lantern title focusing on a Green Lantern not in Justice League. Maybe Teen Titans as well, but I'd tool it so that the characters have nothing to do with Batman, Superman or Justice League characters.

I think this would be the best way to get new readers and keep old fans happy.
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Old September 9 2011, 06:55 AM   #285
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Wizard Magazine already demonstrated how to do a proper DC Ultimate line...with a few adjustments to their plot suggestions it could have been easily done.
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