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Old November 20 2011, 04:12 AM   #2326
Admiral_Young
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ Exactly. A direct connection to the Gods only serves to increase her mythological profile and the clay story becomes a type of urban myth now.
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Old November 20 2011, 04:15 AM   #2327
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Storywise, that's more interesting than having her molded out of clay, which I thought was a bit silly to begin with..
See Pygmalion. Which I assume was the inspiration for that origin of Wonder Woman.
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Old November 20 2011, 10:46 AM   #2328
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I was talking to a friend about the changes about Wonder Woman's origin and he turned to me and said "that's interesting, does that mean she now has a vagina?"

I went "..em.. " and changed the subject.
Is your friend usually that um...odd or was that a one off slimy comment?
It's actually a theory I have heard a few times in fandom, why such a theory exists I have no idea.
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Old November 20 2011, 03:36 PM   #2329
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
...having her molded out of clay, which I thought was a bit silly to begin with.
That much sillier than:

An alien who looks exactly like a human is granted nearly limitless powers due simply to the color of sun we have?

A billionaire who is capable of making or acquiring fabulous and versatile gadgets to fight crime without being caught or tracked by the law?

An "amphibious" man from the bottom of the ocean?

An alien race capable of creating any object they want with thought through a ring?
Her clay origin isn't something I've thought much about because it almost never comes up, but when it has, I've always thought... Why didn't they just write her as a real person? Being molded from clay made her seem like an artifact of some sort. I don't mind robots or computers being created things, but it never felt right for Wonder Woman. I always thought she had a father somewhere anyway. That's just how vague and little talked about the clay origin has been to me, so what they're doing now is coming off like a confirmation rather than a huge shocking retcon.

Just my personal opinion the "made from clay" thing is much more magical, mythical and interesting to me than her simply being a bastard child.
Nothing wrong with being a "bastard child" unless people make it a problem. And I don't mind "special" as in "different circumstances". It's "special" on the level of a messiah, the kind that's too far removed from man, that I take issue with. Like I said, I never saw Wonder Woman that way, and if her mythical origin made her such in the eyes of other characters or the reader, then I'm glad it's been cut down. Myths are usually good when they're fun and harmless. When they start to do things like elevate some and put down everyone else, I think it's time for them to go.

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
The idea that no one is born special or above the rest is, I think, a good lesson in general.
It's certainly comfortably current and reassuring. The essence of myth is something else again. But then, I never read any kind of fiction looking for good lessons.

Of course, having a god for a father isn't moving in the direction of not being "born special," any more than being the only child saved from the destruction of his world by a brilliant father is.
Zeus as a father is big and exciting, but it doesn't appear to be making her too big or special if Trekker's posts are anything to go by, and that's where I think she should be as a character... Interesting and possibly extraordinary, but not far removed from man.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
See Pygmalion. Which I assume was the inspiration for that origin of Wonder Woman.
I've heard of Pygmalion, but I've never read up on her. Looks like the whole "made of clay" bit has been used a lot.
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Old November 21 2011, 11:47 AM   #2330
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I was talking to a friend about the changes about Wonder Woman's origin and he turned to me and said "that's interesting, does that mean she now has a vagina?"

I went "..em.. " and changed the subject.
Is your friend usually that um...odd or was that a one off slimy comment?
It's actually a theory I have heard a few times in fandom, why such a theory exists I have no idea.
I guess it would explain why Steve Trevor got off the trolley.
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Old November 21 2011, 03:49 PM   #2331
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

So, Diana's gone from having an origin that was more or less unique among the super-hero set, to...swiping Cassie Sandsmark's origin? *Yawn* Maybe next they can reveal that Krypton was just a dream and Superman was really a clone cooked up in a vat at Cadmus.
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Old November 21 2011, 05:17 PM   #2332
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

That implies Wonder Girl's origin was unique. It's not.
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Old November 21 2011, 06:31 PM   #2333
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Personally, I would have had WW be Hercules' daughter and, therefore, Zeus' granddaughter. Hercules was shown in the past to have "seduced" and betrayed Hippolyta. Having Diana be his daughter would have been less of a curveball but still made for a character who was part of the gods' "family."
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Old November 21 2011, 06:43 PM   #2334
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I like that idea, but I suspect part of the reason for Zeus rather than Hercules is to avoid the spectre of rape; further, Diana as daughter of a god potentially equal to Hercules (rather than a quarter-god) is to insist that she is in Superman's ballpark when it comes to overall strength.
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Old November 21 2011, 06:59 PM   #2335
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

It's funny we're having this discussion now and not like two weeks ago when the new origin news broke lol.
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Old November 21 2011, 07:04 PM   #2336
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hera is not going to be happy when she hears about this.
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Old November 21 2011, 07:14 PM   #2337
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ Yeah that point was brought up in the thread already. The book kind of has a Hercules Legendary Journey's vibe to it. I think Strife mentioned in the issue that Hera is going to be pissed. Also for those who have been reading Wonder Woman...is Alexa supposed to be the "new" Artemis? She seems to have shared a lot of her characteristics and look. I don't think we've seen Artemis yet in the book.
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Old November 21 2011, 07:15 PM   #2338
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Derishton wrote: View Post
I like that idea, but I suspect part of the reason for Zeus rather than Hercules is to avoid the spectre of rape; further, Diana as daughter of a god potentially equal to Hercules (rather than a quarter-god) is to insist that she is in Superman's ballpark when it comes to overall strength.
DC will never let that happen. When Byrne was on the book he had Zeus raise Diana to the Goddess of Truth. She was described as second only to Superman among the heroes is the DCU. They undid that and depowered her as soon as he left.
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Old November 21 2011, 07:25 PM   #2339
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Well, "ballpark" is different than "standing on the diamond together."

Admiral Young, I suspect many of us waited tos ee the actual issue before commen ... oh, wait, this is the internet. Yeah, that IS weird.
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Old November 21 2011, 10:38 PM   #2340
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

So I've been torturing myself with poor comics the last few weeks. All Star Goddamn Batman and Dick Grayson Age Twelve, JLA Act of God, soon Amazons Attack... But on top of all of that I'm also tackling one good book I've always wanted to check out.

Superman: Red Son.
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