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Old November 10 2011, 04:32 AM   #2116
Admiral_Young
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Damian is an awesome little SOB. He will rub off on you if you read enough books that he is in . Trekker...you're coming into the Bat game really late and have missed a lot of back story. I don't know if you have the time but I would highly suggest that you read "Batman and Robin" as well as a few other trades from Morrison's run, especially Morrison's three volumes of "Batman and Son" which feature Dick as Batman and Damian as Robin. It will explain things regarding Damian and why he's the way he is for you.
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Old November 10 2011, 04:47 AM   #2117
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Well, as I've said before, the other Batman books have worked for me, mainly Batman's self-titled book. I won't mess with reading a bunch of other, older, books and just pick-up on the backstory as things move along. Really, they should have done a "harder reboot" on Batman too instead of leaving so much of the past intact.
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Old November 10 2011, 04:47 AM   #2118
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^the reason the GL and Bat stuff didn't get a reboot was they were selling well. if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Old November 10 2011, 04:50 AM   #2119
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ Exactly plus Grant Morrison would have been pretty pissed off if he wasn't given a chance to finish his Bat opus. I know that I wouldn't have bothered reading the relaunch at all if Batman, Inc had been axed.
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Old November 10 2011, 04:51 AM   #2120
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Sure, they don't have to start over... but it should still be accessible to Trekker, and the solution to his problem should not be "read a bunch of old stuff."
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Old November 10 2011, 04:55 AM   #2121
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Why shouldn't a solution not be "read old stuff"? I can understand not having the time to do so for whatever reason, but if you are a fan taking time to invest in these characters and want a better understanding of why some are the way they are that is the simplest solution to me. Also there are other options like Wikipedia that can be helpful if you don't want to read stuff, that is what I do from time to time. Again I think these problems are part of DC wanting to eat all of it's cake and attempt to please all of it's fan base by having this meshed timeline.
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Old November 10 2011, 05:02 AM   #2122
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Because it's a jumping-on point? It's 52 "all-new #1s," not 52 "all-new #65s." Trekker is the very kind of person DC needs to be reaching out to; why are they alienating him?
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Old November 10 2011, 05:10 AM   #2123
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ They would argue that they're not and not to quibble but it's actually The NEW 52 not "all new". As my point before stated there is stuff carried over from arcs due to sales. It is not like we're taking a hardship reading a couple previous trades. Anyway...

Batman and Robin #3: Finally. I really enjoyed this issue. The dynamic between Bruce and Damian is starting to round up. We get some more information about Nobody, it seems both he and Bruce know each other from the past. The art work is pretty good, Tomasai's writing is decent...better than Tony Daniels at any rate. This was enough to make me continue reading this arc.
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Old November 10 2011, 05:15 AM   #2124
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I used to be really into comics as a teenager but that's almost a couple of decades behind me now since I was last really into comics and a lot of the stuff I don't quite remember as I really wasn't into it enough back then to really dedicate all of it to memory. The "New 52" soft-reboot seemed like a good time to try and to re-invest interest into the comics and for the most part it has all been going well.

My lack of understanding of Damian's backstory has nothing to do with anything, I just don't like him. In fact, I've never liked the idea of Robin and thought Batman works well enough on his own and doesn't need some teenaged doofus slowing him down. The way Robin, or previous Robins, have been treated in the other Bat-Books has been fine. I liked the use of Nightwing/Dick in Batgirl 3 and the use of the Robin(s) in "Batman" and in DC, but it's not completely working for me yet in B&R mostly because I'm not quite liking this Robin yet but with the "seduction of the dark-side"-like angle this book seemed to suggest it's going to go with it's slightly promising.

I've no intention of trying to catch up on nearly two decades worth of missed story because, as said above, by starting off with all new #1s any back story should pretty much be either erased or better handled.

Take how Barbra Gordon's paralysis has been handled so-far in Batgirl, we've mostly been told how it fits into the "new" timeline and what happened and, slowly, we're being told how Barbra got the use of her legs back and how her recovery is progressing.

But it seems the Batman & Robin book is weighing itself down a lot more with backstory than the other books. I think even in "Batman #1" Bruce Wayne dons an exposition device that explains to him (us) who the various Robin(s) are and other small details.

I'll continue reading B&R, and the other Bat Books, through their first arc but, right now, I'm thinking that "Batman" is the only one I'll continue following as it's really the only that has captured me.

And it's not really the not knowing or remembering Damien's back-story that's making me not really be passionate about this book it's, again, that I just don't like the character or the Robin idea at all or at least how it's been shown so far.

^ They would argue that they're not and not to quibble but it's actually The NEW 52 not "all new". As my point before stated there is stuff carried over from arcs due to sales. It is not like we're taking a hardship reading a couple previous trades. Anyway...
Well, as previously stated, the other books I've picked up (Superman/Girl titles, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash) have all taken some strides to while not do entire origin stories they also started off "fresh enough" for new readers to pick them up without having to deal with decades of backstory. Considering there are four Batman titles you'd think one of them could've been a cold, hard, reboot that shed the past and pretty much started over. Again, not necessarily with an origin story but something not so weighted down with the Batman mythos.
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Old November 10 2011, 05:18 AM   #2125
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Fair Enough. Damian is one of my favourite characters in comics right now, he isn't well liked by most fans because, well he was created to be a punk ass kid. He's grown a lot though since he was first introduced since Dick Grayson worked with him. As some have said in the thread previous this current story line is a bit of a step back on that work that was previously done, but this issue did a lot to turn that around for me.
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Old November 10 2011, 05:20 AM   #2126
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I can see both sides. I am a success story in the old business model. I jumped into the DCU with Green Arrow #34, Flash #207, JLA #94, Green Lantern #176, Aquaman #15, JSA #59, Batman #620... and I'm pretty sure that was all I was reading at the time. All of those were advertised as jumping on points and I was able to read them without too much confusion. Yeah, there was stuff I didn't know about, but I spent a little bit of time and did some research. And there was some stuff I'd just have to accept. Like Wally West being married, Green Lantern was wandering in Space up until that point, Aquaman had a magic hand. It's the same case with Batman having a son. Either go back and read the fantastic Morrison run or don't and just accept that he has a son. The idea that he has a son is really not as complicated as a lot of the stuff I was forced to accept.

I understand that this was advertised as a reboot and it can be frustrating, but if DC "pandered" to new readers and reach out to only them, what do they do in two or three years when this continuity is laid out? Do they scrap it all again? They can't just pander to the new readers coming in, they have to keep old fans too and some of these elements are most likely doing that. And personally, I don't understand the aversion that some new fans have for going back and reading older stories. There are a lot of good stories out there to be read. Continuity be damned.
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Old November 10 2011, 05:24 AM   #2127
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Sure, they don't have to start over... but it should still be accessible to Trekker, and the solution to his problem should not be "read a bunch of old stuff."
There is a thing called wikipedia. People should learn to take advantage of it.
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Old November 10 2011, 01:16 PM   #2128
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Sure, they don't have to start over... but it should still be accessible to Trekker, and the solution to his problem should not be "read a bunch of old stuff."
There is a thing called wikipedia. People should learn to take advantage of it.
Why? What does that have to do with a line-wide relaunch being accessible to new readers?
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Old November 10 2011, 01:51 PM   #2129
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Yeah, how will Hal get out of that one?!
Johns really seems to have fallen out of love with Hal - here and in the Justice League, he's been written as being a little slow...
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Old November 10 2011, 01:58 PM   #2130
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

^ It's okay to say idiot, I think it's been mentioned earlier in thread regarding Hal and frankly that is how he has been portrayed lately.
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