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Old October 30 2011, 04:25 AM   #1831
Admiral_Young
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Not like the art??? The art is simply magnificent...I'll agree on the story. I love the art.
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Old October 30 2011, 04:40 AM   #1832
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Well, let me rephrase that. The art is good, for the most part there's some panels where it didn't impress me much but the splash pages and bigger action panels were good. I guess I more didn't like the coloring in it. Most notably the fact Batwoman looks like she got some severe albinism.

Issue 1:

The first page is beautiful well drawn and the color gives the right tone, the second two-page splash page continues the theme of the fist and still looks good. Third/Fourth page, the "splash panel" of Batwoman's entrance looks good but then the story panels underneath just lack something. Shading. Detail, I'm not sure what it is but they look less like comic panels and more like the game-loading stills from a GTA game. (Not to mention characters are talking but their mouths are closed. From there on the artwork seems to sort of goes back and forth between great and just okay. But more than anything else the coloring (especially on Batwoman) just leaves me cold.
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Old October 30 2011, 05:39 AM   #1833
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Why would their mouths have to be open for there to be dialog? Even in the real world mouths open and close as you speak. If it helps think of the panel as a photo taken just as their mouths closed while speaking.

Williams uses a lot of different techniques in the book, thats what makes the art interesting. Yeah, Batwoman/Kate Kane are pale. Its kind of her thing.
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Old October 30 2011, 05:51 AM   #1834
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I think she is pale because of the goth makeup she wears.
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Old October 30 2011, 06:13 AM   #1835
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
Derishton wrote: View Post
And again, giving us a new JLI with no apparent history intact - when the entire appeal of that produce IS nostalgia ... that makes little sense at all.
This JLI isn't meant to appeal to nostalgia. It's meant to be a continuation of the group from Generation Lost like Hawkman/Firestorm/Aquaman were springboarded from Brightest Day except here both writers: Giffen and Winnick aren't on the book and they gave the book to Jurgens. A similar thing happened to Hawkman apparently.
But the group from Generation Lost is a direct continuation of the original JLI, brought together and published over a year because DC saw that there was both nostalgia for this group and fan anger over how they had "disappeared" since the end of the Jurgens run. It logically can't be a continuation of the return of a league that never existed.
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Old October 30 2011, 06:44 AM   #1836
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

If you read Generation Lost, it's less of a nostalgia group and more of an anti-Max Lord taskforce.
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Old October 30 2011, 04:20 PM   #1837
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Zombie Cheerleader wrote: View Post
Why would their mouths have to be open for there to be dialog? Even in the real world mouths open and close as you speak. If it helps think of the panel as a photo taken just as their mouths closed while speaking.

Williams uses a lot of different techniques in the book, thats what makes the art interesting. Yeah, Batwoman/Kate Kane are pale. Its kind of her thing.
To be fair, I think they went too far with it in the new series. Like, in Elegy, her ass is pale, but when she's in civilian mode, it's within human bounds; they only cranked it up to Crow-level chalkiness when she was Batwoman.

At least in #1, they were coloring regular Kate Kane the same as Batwoman, which I thought was a bit of a mistake.

And I don't get the mouth open/closed criticism either, but it really does bother some folks, and I can sort of see their point. Thing is, what, 95% of all panels would involve an open mouth if we decided that any dialogue = visible tongue.

But yeah, overall the man is annoyingly, unapproachably perfect. It's maddening.
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Old October 30 2011, 04:55 PM   #1838
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
If you read Generation Lost, it's less of a nostalgia group and more of an anti-Max Lord taskforce.
I know what it is. I read it. It was a "getting the band back together" narrative, pretty explicitly. The title itself doesn't make any sense except as a riff on a lost era and lost characters.

The first two issues of the new JLI series spent at least a third of the time making teasing comments about which parts of the old continuity still "count" and in what form: Guy and Ice, the idea of a UN charter, how well Batman and Guy get along. The ending of Generation Lost - where Batman looks ready to put the JLI back together - is clearly not what's happened at the beginning of the new series.

I do hope the new series finds its groove. I wanted to like it. But it needs to go in its own direction, rather than being a warmed-over Giffen/Dematteis.
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Old October 30 2011, 05:20 PM   #1839
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I want fully reheated Giffen/deMatteis.
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Old October 30 2011, 05:55 PM   #1840
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
I want fully reheated Giffen/deMatteis.
So do I, but once DC made the decision to go in a different direction, that direction had to be something new if it was going to work.

I'm also re-reading the Perez/Wolfman Titans series, in the new omnibus, and remembering how ground-breaking it was. I'm not sure why DC got rid of that legacy, although I imagine if you're trying to get rid of Wally West and Donna Troy, the original Titans are a continuity problem (actually, West is a problem for Justice League Europe, too - it's these pesky post-Silver Age properties which were critically and commercially successful. Didn't we realize in the 80s that Barry Allen was just the keenest?!?)
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Old October 30 2011, 06:04 PM   #1841
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Derishton wrote: View Post
I'm also re-reading the Perez/Wolfman Titans series, in the new omnibus, and remembering how ground-breaking it was. I'm not sure why DC got rid of that legacy, although I imagine if you're trying to get rid of Wally West and Donna Troy, the original Titans are a continuity problem
It's clear in Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 that Starfire and Roy were teammates at some point in the past. And in Teen Titans #2 Tim makes reference to the existence of previous Titans teams.

I'm not sure that Donna has to be problematical to exist in the DCnU. The Wonder Girl backstory isn't going to fit, but all the stuff with Cronus and the Titans (in other words, the Troia origin) would likely work.
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Old October 30 2011, 06:11 PM   #1842
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
I want fully reheated Giffen/deMatteis.
*sigh* I'm afraid it never will be again....
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Old October 30 2011, 06:30 PM   #1843
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
It's clear in Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 that Starfire and Roy were teammates at some point in the past. And in Teen Titans #2 Tim makes reference to the existence of previous Titans teams.

I'm not sure that Donna has to be problematical to exist in the DCnU. The Wonder Girl backstory isn't going to fit, but all the stuff with Cronus and the Titans (in other words, the Troia origin) would likely work.
I knew about the Starfire/Roy connection, and hadn't heard about Tim's quick comment. So I see what you're saying, but there does seem to be some significant debate about whether those earlier teams ever included the Wolfman/Perez team. As with the JLI, the legacy aspect of the later teams was so front and center that without the New Teen Titans it would seem to fall apart. But I'm willing to wait and see.

As for Donna Troy, continuity confusion is kinda her thing ... why would you take that away from her? (But I agree Troia would work.)
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Old October 30 2011, 06:44 PM   #1844
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

You know, I'm suddenly wondering if the mysterious purple woman isn't Troia in some new form.
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Old October 30 2011, 10:11 PM   #1845
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

The books only need to "go in a new direction to work" if there's some evidence that significant numbers of existing readers have been lost as a result of the reboot - because anything is new to first-time readers.

Thus far, fan board declarations that DC has alienated long-time readers remain anecdotal and without support from sales figures.
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