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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 1 2011, 03:40 PM   #1
Qew
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Admirals

Why are the Admirals such schmucks? I thought the great past captains were the ones that became Admirals, yet the Admirals depicted in TNG are seen as petty, immature, rash, quick tempered, and even corrupt. Hardly Starfleets finest eh?
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Old September 1 2011, 04:02 PM   #2
Mytran
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Re: Admirals

It was just the same in TOS. virtually every Admiral, Commodore or superior that Kirk had to deal with a pain in the neck, corrupt or just plain useless!
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Old September 1 2011, 04:16 PM   #3
Finn
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Re: Admirals

Qew wrote: View Post
Why are the Admirals such schmucks? I thought the great past captains were the ones that became Admirals, yet the Admirals depicted in TNG are seen as petty, immature, rash, quick tempered, and even corrupt. Hardly Starfleets finest eh?
They did the same thing with the brass in M*A*S*H
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Old September 1 2011, 04:18 PM   #4
Tan Ru
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Re: Admirals

Well, think about it..........

Where you work: Consider your boss, over-seers, managers, team-leads, department heads etc.

Now also consider your government: Senators, Congressmen, Representatives, public employees etc.

Don't you ever wonder how they have kept their jobs/positions? A lot seem kind of incompetent and oafish don't they?

SAME with Starfleet admirals. Dim-witted boobs get into positions of power and micro-manage their underlings.

In Trek's case, it makes good drama.
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Old September 2 2011, 08:16 AM   #5
Timo
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Re: Admirals

FWIW, here's a more or less comprehensive list of TNG Admirals.

Aaron from "Conspiracy": potentially a nice guy, only co-opted by parasites
Blackwell from "Pegasus": possibly in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Brackett from "Unification": no obvious faults
Brand from "First Duty": exposed a conspiracy involving Wesley
Brooks
from "Suspicions" and "Descent":no obvious faults
Drazman from "Starship Mine": boring
Gromek from "The Emissary": no obvious faults
Haden
from "The Defector" and "The Wounded": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard; the "Admiral Ross" of TNG
Haftel from "The Offspring": tried to take custody of Data's "child", but was sympathetic and helped out Data with said child's "illness"
Hahn from "Menage a Troi": regretted that Wes didn't get into the Academy
Hanson from "Best of Both Worlds": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard
Hayes from "Realm of Fear": no obvious faults
Henry from "Drumhead": put an end to an attempt to harass Picard
Holt from "Interface": no obvious faults
Jameson from "Too Short a Season": tried too hard to make up for a past blunder
Kennelly from "Ensign Ro": conspired with Cardassians, was played for sucker
McCoy from "Encounter at Farpoint": an utter asshole and a senile geezer
Mitchell from "Starship Mine": no obvious faults
Nakamura from "Measure of a Man": allowed Data to be treated as property, then to fight for his rights
Nechayev from "Chain of Command", "Descent", "Journey's End": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard; the female "Admiral Ross" of TNG
Pressman from "Pegasus": in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Raner from "Pegasus": in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Rossa from "Suddenly Human": no obvious faults
Satie from "Drumhead" and "All Good Things..": harassed Picard
Savar from "Conspiracy": potentially a nice guy, only co-opted by parasites
Shanti from "Unification" and "Pegasus": no obvious faults
Quinn from "Coming of Age" and "Conspiracy": tried to uncover the parasite conspiracy, then fell victim to it

That's 27 people of whom half a dozen were mere neutral name-drops, three suffered from parasitic infection when shouting "Off with Picard's head!", three or possibly four conspired for perceived greater good of the UFP and thus were at odds with Picard, and three considered Picard their prize stallion for the most difficult missions. Plus one was boring.

"Petty, immature, rash, quick tempered, and even corrupt"? Statistically speaking, not really...

Timo Saloniemi
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Old September 2 2011, 08:44 AM   #6
Vanyel
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Admirals

Timo wrote: View Post
Brand from "First Duty": exposed a conspiracy involving Wesley
Technically, Picard uncovered the conspiracy, Wesley admitted to it. Brand was about to close the hearing, before Wesley grew a set.
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Old September 2 2011, 04:11 PM   #7
Yevetha
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Re: Admirals

Tan Ru wrote: View Post
Well, think about it..........

Where you work: Consider your boss, over-seers, managers, team-leads, department heads etc.

Now also consider your government: Senators, Congressmen, Representatives, public employees etc.

Don't you ever wonder how they have kept their jobs/positions? A lot seem kind of incompetent and oafish don't they?

SAME with Starfleet admirals. Dim-witted boobs get into positions of power and micro-manage their underlings.

In Trek's case, it makes good drama.
The military is different, people dont last that long if they are incompetent, especialy during war.

Unless its WW2 italian military.
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Old September 2 2011, 04:39 PM   #8
sonak
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Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Admirals

Vanyel wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Brand from "First Duty": exposed a conspiracy involving Wesley
Technically, Picard uncovered the conspiracy, Wesley admitted to it. Brand was about to close the hearing, before Wesley grew a set.

if by "grew a set" you mean screwed over his friends
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Old September 2 2011, 05:22 PM   #9
Vanyel
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Admirals

sonak wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
Brand from "First Duty": exposed a conspiracy involving Wesley
Technically, Picard uncovered the conspiracy, Wesley admitted to it. Brand was about to close the hearing, before Wesley grew a set.

if by "grew a set" you mean screwed over his friends
Lacrno was a bully looking out for his interests. Wesley finally got the courage to stand up to him. A really good Wesley episode.

Hey this the first time I'm using my phone to post. I like it.
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Old September 2 2011, 05:24 PM   #10
RAMA
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Location: NJ, USA
Re: Admirals

Timo wrote: View Post
FWIW, here's a more or less comprehensive list of TNG Admirals.

Aaron from "Conspiracy": potentially a nice guy, only co-opted by parasites
Blackwell from "Pegasus": possibly in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Brackett from "Unification": no obvious faults
Brand from "First Duty": exposed a conspiracy involving Wesley
Brooks
from "Suspicions" and "Descent":no obvious faults
Drazman from "Starship Mine": boring
Gromek from "The Emissary": no obvious faults
Haden
from "The Defector" and "The Wounded": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard; the "Admiral Ross" of TNG
Haftel from "The Offspring": tried to take custody of Data's "child", but was sympathetic and helped out Data with said child's "illness"
Hahn from "Menage a Troi": regretted that Wes didn't get into the Academy
Hanson from "Best of Both Worlds": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard
Hayes from "Realm of Fear": no obvious faults
Henry from "Drumhead": put an end to an attempt to harass Picard
Holt from "Interface": no obvious faults
Jameson from "Too Short a Season": tried too hard to make up for a past blunder
Kennelly from "Ensign Ro": conspired with Cardassians, was played for sucker
McCoy from "Encounter at Farpoint": an utter asshole and a senile geezer
Mitchell from "Starship Mine": no obvious faults
Nakamura from "Measure of a Man": allowed Data to be treated as property, then to fight for his rights
Nechayev from "Chain of Command", "Descent", "Journey's End": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard; the female "Admiral Ross" of TNG
Pressman from "Pegasus": in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Raner from "Pegasus": in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Rossa from "Suddenly Human": no obvious faults
Satie from "Drumhead" and "All Good Things..": harassed Picard
Savar from "Conspiracy": potentially a nice guy, only co-opted by parasites
Shanti from "Unification" and "Pegasus": no obvious faults
Quinn from "Coming of Age" and "Conspiracy": tried to uncover the parasite conspiracy, then fell victim to it

That's 27 people of whom half a dozen were mere neutral name-drops, three suffered from parasitic infection when shouting "Off with Picard's head!", three or possibly four conspired for perceived greater good of the UFP and thus were at odds with Picard, and three considered Picard their prize stallion for the most difficult missions. Plus one was boring.

"Petty, immature, rash, quick tempered, and even corrupt"? Statistically speaking, not really...

Timo Saloniemi

Pretty good record compared to TOS admirals
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Old September 2 2011, 07:27 PM   #11
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
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Location: House of Kang with Ridges
Re: Admirals

Yevetha wrote: View Post
Tan Ru wrote: View Post
Well, think about it..........

Where you work: Consider your boss, over-seers, managers, team-leads, department heads etc.

Now also consider your government: Senators, Congressmen, Representatives, public employees etc.

Don't you ever wonder how they have kept their jobs/positions? A lot seem kind of incompetent and oafish don't they?

SAME with Starfleet admirals. Dim-witted boobs get into positions of power and micro-manage their underlings.

In Trek's case, it makes good drama.
The military is different, people dont last that long if they are incompetent, especialy during war.

Unless its WW2 italian military.
Its TV show about the military. Every TV show about the military has its share of boobs, idiots and incompetents who are in charge. Like Tan Ru said, it makes for good drama ( and Comedy). How the real military does it isn't a factor.
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Old September 2 2011, 08:25 PM   #12
M'rk, son of Mogh
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Admirals

Timo wrote: View Post
McCoy from "Encounter at Farpoint": an utter asshole and a senile geezer

Great description of him as seen from a "only information given from the episode" point of view.

Also funny since, of that list, he's who we all know most about and, most probably, have a fondness for the scene.
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Old September 2 2011, 08:37 PM   #13
Klingon Empire
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Location: Michigania
Re: Admirals

See, the thing is, McCoy was always like that. Minus the Senile.
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Old September 2 2011, 10:59 PM   #14
BrotherofShran0
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Location: Royal Oak, MI
Re: Admirals

Mytran wrote: View Post
It was just the same in TOS. virtually every Admiral, Commodore or superior that Kirk had to deal with a pain in the neck, corrupt or just plain useless!
Admiral Komack was not. In amok time, I think he would have allowed Kirk to take Spock to Vulcan if Spock would allowed Kirk to tell the Admiral Spock's situation.
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Old September 2 2011, 11:08 PM   #15
BrotherofShran0
Lieutenant
 
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Location: Royal Oak, MI
Re: Admirals

Timo wrote: View Post
FWIW, here's a more or less comprehensive list of TNG Admirals.

Aaron from "Conspiracy": potentially a nice guy, only co-opted by parasites
Blackwell from "Pegasus": possibly in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Brackett from "Unification": no obvious faults
Brand from "First Duty": exposed a conspiracy involving Wesley
Brooks
from "Suspicions" and "Descent":no obvious faults
Drazman from "Starship Mine": boring
Gromek from "The Emissary": no obvious faults
Haden
from "The Defector" and "The Wounded": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard; the "Admiral Ross" of TNG
Haftel from "The Offspring": tried to take custody of Data's "child", but was sympathetic and helped out Data with said child's "illness"
Hahn from "Menage a Troi": regretted that Wes didn't get into the Academy
Hanson from "Best of Both Worlds": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard
Hayes from "Realm of Fear": no obvious faults
Henry from "Drumhead": put an end to an attempt to harass Picard
Holt from "Interface": no obvious faults
Jameson from "Too Short a Season": tried too hard to make up for a past blunder
Kennelly from "Ensign Ro": conspired with Cardassians, was played for sucker
McCoy from "Encounter at Farpoint": an utter asshole and a senile geezer
Mitchell from "Starship Mine": no obvious faults
Nakamura from "Measure of a Man": allowed Data to be treated as property, then to fight for his rights
Nechayev from "Chain of Command", "Descent", "Journey's End": no-nonsense badass with an apparent relationship of mutual respect with Picard; the female "Admiral Ross" of TNG
Pressman from "Pegasus": in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Raner from "Pegasus": in on a Federation-serving conspiracy
Rossa from "Suddenly Human": no obvious faults
Satie from "Drumhead" and "All Good Things..": harassed Picard
Savar from "Conspiracy": potentially a nice guy, only co-opted by parasites
Shanti from "Unification" and "Pegasus": no obvious faults
Quinn from "Coming of Age" and "Conspiracy": tried to uncover the parasite conspiracy, then fell victim to it

That's 27 people of whom half a dozen were mere neutral name-drops, three suffered from parasitic infection when shouting "Off with Picard's head!", three or possibly four conspired for perceived greater good of the UFP and thus were at odds with Picard, and three considered Picard their prize stallion for the most difficult missions. Plus one was boring.

"Petty, immature, rash, quick tempered, and even corrupt"? Statistically speaking, not really...

Timo Saloniemi
Very good list. I'm watching the Best of Both World part I & II. Too bad about Admiral Hanson.
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