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Old August 25 2011, 12:40 AM   #31
Sci
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And ENT: "The Catwalk" established that Solkar, Sarek's grandfather according to ST III, was Vulcan's first ambassador to Earth (and thus might've been the Vulcan who met Zefram Cochrane at the end of First Contact).
That seems improbable to me. Captain Kirk might have made first contact with the Gorn, but that doesn't mean he served as the first Federation Ambassador to the Gorn Hegemony. I don't see why the commanding officer of a Vulcan scout ship would happen to become the first Vulcan Ambassador to Earth.
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Old August 25 2011, 02:51 AM   #32
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

According to Memory Alpha:
In an unpublished interview with Larry Nemecek, "The Catwalk" writer Mike Sussman believes this as well, citing the wording in Archer's dialog in "Horizon" in which he refers to Cochrane's first contact and says, loosely, "I don't remember anyone going after the Vulcan ambassador with pitchforks and torches when they first landed."
And it's not unprecedented. Dave Bailey became the Federation's ambassador to the First Federation, at least unofficially. And if Solkar was the first Vulcan to interact directly and openly with humans, it follows that he would've been the one with the most experience dealing with humans, and that would make him a logical choice for ambassador.
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Old August 25 2011, 05:21 AM   #33
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And it's not unprecedented. Dave Bailey became the Federation's ambassador to the First Federation, at least unofficially. And if Solkar was the first Vulcan to interact directly and openly with humans, it follows that he would've been the one with the most experience dealing with humans, and that would make him a logical choice for ambassador.
Well, by that logic, perhaps if Stron or T'Mir were still alive perhaps one of them should have been appointed to the position. They lived with them for months. Few Vulcans would've had more experience with humans.

Except maybe Mistral.

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Old August 25 2011, 09:31 AM   #34
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Christopher wrote: View Post
But Sarek's father Skon would've been around during the ENT era. Skon was included in the Romulan War-era Tobin story in The Lives of Dax, though that story is inconsistent with what ENT later established about the era.

And ENT: "The Catwalk" established that Solkar, Sarek's grandfather according to ST III, was Vulcan's first ambassador to Earth (and thus might've been the Vulcan who met Zefram Cochrane at the end of First Contact).
IIRC, Skon, as Vulcan Ambassador to Earth, was to have been a principle character in the aborted movie Star Trek: The Beginning, set in 2159. Spock's grandfather knowing Kirk's (great?) grandfather Tiberius Chase would probably have been the most Small Universe Syndrome-y thing in all of Trek.
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Old August 25 2011, 02:42 PM   #35
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Aaron McGuire wrote: View Post
Well, by that logic, perhaps if Stron or T'Mir were still alive perhaps one of them should have been appointed to the position. They lived with them for months. Few Vulcans would've had more experience with humans.
But that was clandestine experience that the Vulcans preferred not to let the humans know about. The crew who made first contact in 2063 would've had the first overt experience interacting with humans. They would've been familiar to the people of Earth. There would've been a two-way relationship established in that contact, and that's something that can be built on in establishing diplomatic ties.

And of course, it should go without saying that such familiarity is only one of the many factors that would be weighed in appointing an ambassador. Logically, you'd want someone who's trained as a diplomat. T'Mir, Stron, and Mestral were the crew of a clandestine observation ship. The people who selected the crew for that mission would not have expected them to interact with aliens directly and thus would not have chosen personnel with diplomatic qualifications. But if that Vulcan starship crew in 2063 decided they were qualified to make first contact themselves rather than calling home for reinforcements, it follows that such contacts were part of their existing mission parameters (since the Vulcans are a very by-the-book people, especially at that time), and thus it's a reasonable expectation that the captain of such a ship -- or the first officer, or whoever it was that made the first contact -- would have diplomatic training, and would thus be a more viable candidate for the post of ambassador than T'Mir or Stron.

Of course I'm not saying that Solkar had to be that particular Vulcan. But I see no reason to consider it impossible or unlikely. There are valid reasons why that particular individual could've been appointed the first Vulcan ambassador to Earth, and thus it's a legitimate possibility that he was Solkar.
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Old August 25 2011, 08:36 PM   #36
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Christopher wrote: View Post
But Sarek's father Skon would've been around during the ENT era. Skon was included in the Romulan War-era Tobin story in The Lives of Dax, though that story is inconsistent with what ENT later established about the era.
Skon and Tobin also appeared together in Beneath the Raptor's Wing.
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Old August 26 2011, 11:35 PM   #37
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Christopher wrote: View Post
And ENT: "The Catwalk" established that Solkar, Sarek's grandfather according to ST III, was Vulcan's first ambassador to Earth (and thus might've been the Vulcan who met Zefram Cochrane at the end of First Contact).
As first suggested by the card of that Vulcan in the Customizable Card Game.
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Old September 8 2011, 01:41 AM   #38
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

There is also Talla, daughter of Shran and Jhamel. I don't believe that canon has established the longevity of Andorians, Aernar, or Andorian/Aernar offspring.

Skon also translated the teachings of Surak into English according to "Two Days and Two Nights" ENT.

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Old September 8 2011, 05:04 PM   #39
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

It would be interesting to know about how the Aenar went extinct and the fall out at the time. Such a story would make an interesting platform for a discussion on race relations.
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Old September 8 2011, 05:32 PM   #40
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
It would be interesting to know about how the Aenar went extinct and the fall out at the time. Such a story would make an interesting platform for a discussion on race relations.
I don't recall where the extinction of the Aenar was established. Source?

Commander Thelin from TAS "Yesteryear" was retconned as part Andorian and part Aenar in the Star Trek: Myriad Universes story "Chimes at Midnight" to explain a character coloring error. The script said that he was blue, but the character was painted gray.
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Old September 8 2011, 06:40 PM   #41
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

^It was stated in Paths of Disharmony, but I don't recall whether it was established before then.
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Old September 8 2011, 09:35 PM   #42
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

That was my source. Of course it was established in ENT that the Aenar population was small and a fringe element.
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Old September 9 2011, 12:17 AM   #43
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

I understand that there was a script provisionally titled "Kilkenny Cats" for ENT season 5 that would have introduced Larry Niven's Kzinti.

Might be fun to include the Kzinti in this lost era.

Mike Sussman revealed that he had the idea of making T'Pol half-Vulcan and half-Romulan in which she meets her father who was a Romulan agent who had posed as a Vulcan officer before faking his own death.
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Old September 9 2011, 05:21 AM   #44
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Yeah, I would love to see them incorporate some of the abandoned ideas for Season 5 of ENT.
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Old September 9 2011, 09:54 AM   #45
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Re: Could a Lost Era set between 2161 and 2265 work?

Herbert wrote: View Post
I understand that there was a script provisionally titled "Kilkenny Cats"
That would have been cool, an episode named after my Girlfriends home town's Hurling Team.
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