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Old August 10 2011, 03:46 AM   #1
Danoz
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What's your take on Section 31?

Do you think they were a necessary evil? Or an abomination of the Federation?
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Old August 10 2011, 03:49 AM   #2
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

I think they're a pussified version of the CIA.
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Old August 10 2011, 03:51 AM   #3
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

I think there everyone's favorite bogey-man now. Every time something happens in the Trek universe people claim Section 31 is behind it.

Worst element ever introduced to the Trek universe.
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Old August 10 2011, 04:12 AM   #4
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

I just don't get the point of Section 31. Is it so the writers can show us the Federation isn't as good and noble as we had been led to believe? If so, they should have made S31 an official part of the Federation government instead of some bizarre secret society/conspiracy. What is it that S31 does that Starfleet Intelligence doesn't already do? As far as I know, the only thing S31 did was attempt genocide and they couldn't even do that right! They clearly aren't very good at intelligence gathering otherwise the Breen raid on San Francisco would not have happened. My take on Section 31: utterly useless.
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Old August 10 2011, 04:23 AM   #5
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

Rojixus wrote: View Post
I just don't get the point of Section 31. Is it so the writers can show us the Federation isn't as good and noble as we had been led to believe? If so, they should have made S31 an official part of the Federation government instead of some bizarre secret society/conspiracy. What is it that S31 does that Starfleet Intelligence doesn't already do? As far as I know, the only thing S31 did was attempt genocide and they couldn't even do that right! They clearly aren't very good at intelligence gathering otherwise the Breen raid on San Francisco would not have happened. My take on Section 31: utterly useless.

basically this. Why does Starfleet need a super-duper-secret organization with magic decoder ring-stuff? They already have Starfleet Intelligence and rogue admirals willing to do underhanded things to put the UFP ahead.

The whole "it's so seeecret that no one even can confirm it's existence" is just silly kids stuff.


it just seemed like a too self-conscious way of making Star Trek "darker."
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Old August 10 2011, 04:32 AM   #6
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

I loved the idea. The Federation puts up this image of Utopian society with all the ethics in the Universe, but in practice there will come a time when dirtier work needs to be done to protect its interests. The execution of the idea though needed some work than what we've seen on DS9.
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Old August 10 2011, 04:55 AM   #7
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

They're kindda like the CIA and Soviet Union secret police. That's why America needs to get rid of the CIA. We shouldn't be spying on other nations, especially our allies, and trying to start wars in other countries, period! If what they are doing is so righteous, then why hide the truths. People lie because they know what they are doing is dishonest and wrong. If you haven't done anything wrong, why not just tell the truth and clear the whole mess up so there are no hard feelings? We need to learn to trust each other and have an opened communication and good dialogue, if peach is what you want.
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Old August 10 2011, 05:37 AM   #8
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

GR's original idea was optimistic. Section 31 is the exact opposite. Section 31 makes GR sad.

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Old August 10 2011, 05:48 AM   #9
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

Paradon wrote: View Post
They're kindda like the CIA and Soviet Union secret police. That's why America needs to get rid of the CIA. We shouldn't be spying on other nations, especially our allies, and trying to start wars in other countries, period! If what they are doing is so righteous, then why hide the truths. People lie because they know what they are doing is dishonest and wrong. If you haven't done anything wrong, why not just tell the truth and clear the whole mess up so there are no hard feelings? We need to learn to trust each other and have an opened communication and good dialogue, if peach is what you want.

um, was this post supposed to be a satirical take on this kind of a utopian world view?
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Old August 10 2011, 06:27 AM   #10
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

Section 31 was a terrible idea just to make the Star Trek universe more "dark" and leave the optimistic future behind.
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Old August 10 2011, 06:28 AM   #11
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

RichMerk wrote: View Post
GR's original idea was optimistic. Section 31 is the exact opposite. Section 31 makes GR sad.

Gene Roddenberry also believed there would be no interpersonal conflict in the future and that children would except death with a stiff upper lip.

Last edited by brian577; August 10 2011 at 06:51 AM.
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Old August 10 2011, 06:50 AM   #12
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

Captain Verata wrote: View Post
Section 31 was a terrible idea just to make the Star Trek universe more "dark" and leave the optimistic future behind.
If by "dark" you mean realistic, then I agree.
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Old August 10 2011, 07:54 AM   #13
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

sonak wrote: View Post
Paradon wrote: View Post
They're kindda like the CIA and Soviet Union secret police. That's why America needs to get rid of the CIA. We shouldn't be spying on other nations, especially our allies, and trying to start wars in other countries, period! If what they are doing is so righteous, then why hide the truths. People lie because they know what they are doing is dishonest and wrong. If you haven't done anything wrong, why not just tell the truth and clear the whole mess up so there are no hard feelings? We need to learn to trust each other and have an opened communication and good dialogue, if peach is what you want.

um, was this post supposed to be a satirical take on this kind of a utopian world view?
Um, well, my point is that a lot of people think to change their enemies' point of view is to become devious yourselves. What a lot of people don't understand is if you treat people like they're criminal and wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt and the respect they deserve, then you will always make enemies and drives everyone away and make them hate you. This is why it's better if you start acting like a normal human being and not resort to espionage, starting a war, and killing people in another country. The problem is espionage and killing people war really pisses people off. It's like you ask other countries to believe that your ideal and way of life is great and that they should follow you and trust you, while behind their back, you spy on them and use the intelligence to start a revolution in their country to bring down the communists, or whatever. Do you think anyone would listen? No! This us why I said America should stay out of foreign affairs and remain neutral. More people would listen if we don't spy on them and use the intelligence to cause harm to their countries and people. Why can the United States remain neutral like Switzerland? From their point of view, which everybody is entitled to, they think they're right. How would you like it if they come over here and starting bombing this country because they think you're wrong? We are not going to get anywhere until we start trusting each other. The truth shall set you free! Maybe we should consider making a deal with the devil instead... [chuckle] Keep shooting them until they listen! They're kindda remind me of the Feminists, who make all men out to be inferior to women and that men should act like women. The CIA and Section 31 think other countries are evil and cant' do anything right and needs to be told what to do and how to behave. And what those feminists don't understand is: you can't expect men to act like women...otherwise, go date a crossed dresser. Maybe the find them more attractive! J/K [laugh]
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Last edited by Paradon; August 10 2011 at 08:27 AM.
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Old August 10 2011, 08:59 AM   #14
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

Section 31. Area 51.
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Old August 10 2011, 09:40 AM   #15
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Re: What's your take on Section 31?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I think there everyone's favorite bogey-man now. Every time something happens in the Trek universe people claim Section 31 is behind it.

Worst element ever introduced to the Trek universe.
I very much agree with this. While I think it was initially a good idea to show that Federation's freedoms did come with a price, but I don't think I've gone more than a week here without seeing two or three Section 31 conspiracies. I think I even saw someone post that Kirk becoming captain of the Enterprise was orchestrated by Section 31 and that he was really a longtime agent...
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