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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old November 28 2011, 12:37 PM   #136
Captaindemotion
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

^ That's a two-week old post you're responding to, but FWIW, I really meant the big screen. As to why one wouldn't re-boot a reboot, well, again, I refer you to the comic movie adaptations I mentioned above.
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Old November 28 2011, 04:36 PM   #137
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
nuBSG was a creative success but not so much a ratings success.
But it still lasted 4 seasons. Given the average life expectancy of science fiction programming on American television (network or otherwise), any show that survives 4 seasons has to be considered as success. That goes for Enterprise, too. Yeah, it's all "what have you done for me lately" but Enterprise lasted 4 seasons while Firefly failed after a dozen episodes, and during its run many other SF series died quick deaths. Do the math. (Put aside quality considerations - Hollywood doesn't care about that).

Trek is really missing out on not doing an animated series IMO.
That's definitely the most slam-dunky way to get Trek back on TV - animated series based on the Abrams' movie characters (with or without the movie actors doing the voice work), on The Cartoon Network, maybe paired back to back with The Clone Wars assuming it's still on TV when a Trek series debuts. If not, take over the timeslot.
Since the thread is more about TNG, I'd say a TNG animated series is probably the best bet, especially when you consider a number of the TNG actors - Michael Dorn and Marina Sirtis in particular - have many animated voiceover credits (remember Gargoyles?) it would be a natural fit and would allow the original actors to continue playing their roles regardless of age - much as scores of Doctor Who actors are continuing to reprise their roles for audio dramas made by Big Finish and all that's needed is someone with deep pockets to step forward and there are something close to 200 stories with full soundtracks just waiting to be animated).

An animated TNG would also allow the original universe version of TNG to be presented without concern over major conflict with Abrams (they're focusing on TOS-era for the films and at 4 years between movies they won't get to TNG until sometime around the real 23rd century). The only concern would be turning off viewers with the wrong kind of animation or voice acting. Some might want it to be a close as possible to the original TV show using CG (think New Captain Scarlet), while others might prefer it to be more abstract like, say, "The Batman". Others might want an anime approach. Animating TNG (or Abramsverse TOS) probably would have that major hurdle to deal with.

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Old November 28 2011, 10:10 PM   #138
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

nuBSG's ratings are no great shakes compared with the sf/f cop shows SyFy has had great success with, that are also almost certainly cheaper to produce. So from their perspective, space opera is not terribly attractive. They might launch another one someday (I'm rooting for RHW), if only out of a sense that they might be leaving a significant market unserved (they are).

ENT's ratings started out disappointing and sunk ever after (I remember that like it was yesterday) and even if that hadn't been the case, UPN has been replaced by the CW, whose female-skewing audience strategy leaves no room for space opera (tho there's been at least one rumored space opera in development from them, which never made it to pilot stage.) So that channel is effectively closed off to space opera. I'd be mildly surprised to see even genuine sci fi from the CW, as opposed to vampires and ghosts.

Who else might be a candidate? I keep hoping HBO or Showtime would be daring enough to try a space opera in the premium cable style. But I can see why a myriad of other topics would be more attractive.

If Star Trek becomes an animated series, TNG isn't the most likely topic. By far the most likely is a spinoff of JJ Abrams' movies. That way you get the huge PR boost of a currently running movie series, and you can use Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto et al's characters without worrying whether you can afford the actors or fit into their schedules (although they'd be wise to get Quinto at least - his voice being the most unique and hard to replicate, and he still does TV).

The animation and story style would most likely look to The Clone Wars as a template - appeals to kids and grownups, with the same CGI look, which may be a bit much to get used to, but it does allow the characters to integrate well with very beautiful CGI planets, spaceships, etc. The show would almost certainly run on The Cartoon Network, where there's already a space-opera-cartoon audience watching TCW. In other words, don't assume this series would be for Star Trek fans. It might be made for sci fi cartoon fans in general.

It makes far more sense to create series that appeal to a channel's existing audience, who are easy to advertise to, and are used to watching shows in a certain timeslot. Make the new show and put it in the timeslot they're used to, or just after a compatible show they're already watching (depending on whether TCW is still airing when the theoretical Star Trek show is ready to go.)

If you made a TNG series, how do you reach TNG fans? Where are they? What do they watch now? Do they even still care about Star Trek? Would a cartoon appeal to them, or would they automatically dismiss it as kid stuff? That's a whole lot of "if"s to get through, to get to a success, vs the far more obvious route of "make a new series that appeals to the existing TCW audience."
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Old November 29 2011, 02:42 PM   #139
The Castellan
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Ugh, I pray there's no remake of TNG. It was fine as it was.

And just because something is animated, it's not automatically kiddie. Just look at what comes from Japan.
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Old November 29 2011, 04:57 PM   #140
AviTrek
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Ugh, I pray there's no remake of TNG. It was fine as it was.

And just because something is animated, it's not automatically kiddie. Just look at what comes from Japan.
Japan != USA

Show me a cartoon produced in the US and targeted at US audiences that is not targeted at kids or an "adult" comedy. The US audience has been trained that that's what cartoons are. If you tell the average viewer that there is a Star Trek cartoon on cable they will assume it's only targeted at kids and they will ignore it. A show could try to break that mold, but what network would be willing to risk airing it? Even Clone Wars had a little trouble finding the right fit. If there is going to be a Star Trek cartoon odds are it will follow the Clone Wars mold. Pointing out what happens in Japan has no relevance until a Japanese company buys Star Trek and creates a show for Japanese viewers.
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Old November 29 2011, 08:10 PM   #141
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The animation and story style would most likely look to The Clone Wars as a template - appeals to kids and grownups, with the same CGI look, which may be a bit much to get used to, but it does allow the characters to integrate well with very beautiful CGI planets, spaceships, etc. The show would almost certainly run on The Cartoon Network, where there's already a space-opera-cartoon audience watching TCW. In other words, don't assume this series would be for Star Trek fans. It might be made for sci fi cartoon fans in general.
Actually thinking about it a CGI animated trek might turn out more like Green Lantern TAS as Clone Wars is paid for out of Lucas's pocket from what I hear.

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Ugh, I pray there's no remake of TNG. It was fine as it was.

And just because something is animated, it's not automatically kiddie. Just look at what comes from Japan.
Thats a great idea to get japan to do it, from what I've seen of some of their space shows they seem to want to do it a lot seeing as how close some of them are to trek. They just have to remember that not the entire federation is evil douchebags just some of the ones Kirk and co come into conflict with.

Last edited by Hartzilla2007; November 30 2011 at 12:04 AM.
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Old November 29 2011, 08:41 PM   #142
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

The Castellan wrote: View Post
And just because something is animated, it's not automatically kiddie. Just look at what comes from Japan.
If it's on The Cartoon Network, it needs to appeal to kids (which doesn't rule out appealing to adults). Just look at the ads they run, that tells you who they're programming for. I'm not in the market for a Lego set for building Transformer characters, sorry.

Even if a Star Trek series on TCN also appealed to adults, the kid appeal would be the factor that determines its survival, since the kid audience is what the advertisers want. The adult audience is just a bunch of free-riders.
Actually thinking about it a CGI animated trek might turn out more like Green Lantern TAS as Clones is paid for out of Lucas's pocket from what I hear.
The Clone Wars doesn't turn a profit in its own right? That's surprising, animation isn't that expensive and the ratings are strong. (Even if the series serves chiefly as advertising for Star Wars toys, that's also a legit way to finance a series. Maybe Star Trek needs to start putting more effort into merchandising to kids, which would include an animated series to boost the market.)
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Old November 29 2011, 10:40 PM   #143
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
And just because something is animated, it's not automatically kiddie. Just look at what comes from Japan.
If it's on The Cartoon Network, it needs to appeal to kids (which doesn't rule out appealing to adults). Just look at the ads they run, that tells you who they're programming for. I'm not in the market for a Lego set for building Transformer characters, sorry.

Even if a Star Trek series on TCN also appealed to adults, the kid appeal would be the factor that determines its survival, since the kid audience is what the advertisers want. The adult audience is just a bunch of free-riders.
Actually thinking about it a CGI animated trek might turn out more like Green Lantern TAS as Clones is paid for out of Lucas's pocket from what I hear.
The Clone Wars doesn't turn a profit in its own right? That's surprising, animation isn't that expensive and the ratings are strong. (Even if the series serves chiefly as advertising for Star Wars toys, that's also a legit way to finance a series. Maybe Star Trek needs to start putting more effort into merchandising to kids, which would include an animated series to boost the market.)
I'm sure The Clone Wars is turning a profit for everyone, otherwise it would be off the air. What I think he means is that Lucas financed the production and then sold the complete show to CN as opposed to other shows which require the license fee to pay for the initial production.
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Old November 30 2011, 02:06 AM   #144
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

It is a little early, I think, to "reboot" TNG for anything, TV or movies. The show finished its run on TV only about 18 years ago. TNG is still fresh enough that it would be impossible to sit and watch the show without comparing it to the original. TOS could get rebooted in movie form not just because it has been about 45 years since the original aired, but because the whole approach to its presentation changed. TOS looks different because technology has improved, of course, but also because what we're looking for in science fiction has also changed. It hasn't been long enough to achieve that same turnover with TNG. Perhaps in another 20 years TNG could be rebooted with a completely different approach, if that approach is there to be tapped for it.
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Old November 30 2011, 02:09 PM   #145
The Castellan
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

AviTrek wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
Ugh, I pray there's no remake of TNG. It was fine as it was.

And just because something is animated, it's not automatically kiddie. Just look at what comes from Japan.
Japan != USA

Show me a cartoon produced in the US and targeted at US audiences that is not targeted at kids or an "adult" comedy. The US audience has been trained that that's what cartoons are. If you tell the average viewer that there is a Star Trek cartoon on cable they will assume it's only targeted at kids and they will ignore it. A show could try to break that mold, but what network would be willing to risk airing it? Even Clone Wars had a little trouble finding the right fit. If there is going to be a Star Trek cartoon odds are it will follow the Clone Wars mold. Pointing out what happens in Japan has no relevance until a Japanese company buys Star Trek and creates a show for Japanese viewers.

Well, I pride myself on NOT being the average American, and have watched many animated series, from both Japan and France, that blows away pretty much anything live action made here.

Some fine examples are:

Goshogun: The Time Entangler
Appleseed
Night Walker
Full Metal Alchemist
Akira

And that's just a few.

And Cartoon Network's overrated. I think there outta be an animated channel that shows all sorts of animation that is not relegated to a few watered down, censored animes in the feeble attempt to satisfy the the more discriminating crowd, or showing stuff that appeals to the Sponge Bob Brigade.
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Old November 30 2011, 03:35 PM   #146
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

If there were to be an animated TNG series, I think it unlikely that the middle-aged (at least!) crew of Picard, Riker etc would not appeal to the youthful demographic who mainly watch animated shows. Yes, I know that the likes of the Clone Wars or the Dini-verse DC shows are very, very good and don't just appeal to kids. But let's face it, that's where an animated show largely finds its audience in the West.

One option would be to take a Lower Decks approach. Set the show on the ENT-D or E but have the focus mainly on a bunch of ensigns and cadets, with the bridge crew as supporting characters. That way you'd feature the classic crew but have a youthful bunch for younger viewers to identify with.
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Old November 30 2011, 08:54 PM   #147
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Yes, I know that the likes of the Clone Wars or the Dini-verse DC shows are very, very good and don't just appeal to kids. But let's face it, that's where an animated show largely finds its audience in the West.
Us westerners need to yank that broom stick out of our asses.
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Old November 30 2011, 09:19 PM   #148
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

^ No argument here. But sometimes you have to deal with the world as it is, not how as we'd like it to be.
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Old December 1 2011, 07:06 AM   #149
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
If there were to be an animated TNG series, I think it unlikely that the middle-aged (at least!) crew of Picard, Riker etc would not appeal to the youthful demographic who mainly watch animated shows. Yes, I know that the likes of the Clone Wars or the Dini-verse DC shows are very, very good and don't just appeal to kids. But let's face it, that's where an animated show largely finds its audience in the West.

One option would be to take a Lower Decks approach. Set the show on the ENT-D or E but have the focus mainly on a bunch of ensigns and cadets, with the bridge crew as supporting characters. That way you'd feature the classic crew but have a youthful bunch for younger viewers to identify with.

Well, Star Wars is full of old guys, and the kids seem fine with that.

Same can be said with the lower decks stuff....I doubt Star Wars fans or kids want to see a bunch of padawan kids being shoved into the academy. Speaking of that....it feels that would be Jedi kids seem to be, well, drafted into the Jedi leagues.

And as for the world being whatever....instead of simply accepting it, one can tell it what one thinks, and maybe make a change. I mean, Doctor Who, before it was created, was looked at by network suits as rubbish. Or Comedy central, for years, refusing to give Jeff Dunham any time of day, and they were the ones with egg on their faces when they saw the ratings of his first show they let him do, and the following DVD sales.

Hell, one guy is making a Doctor Who anime, and it's one of the most Doctor Who like stories I've ever seen, moreso than anything Moffet of Davis made, so far, according to many, and it's all animated and in anime style. And trust me, from what I've seen, it would easily appeal to older crowds......John Pertwee, a buxom red haired chick who's outfit leaves little to the imagination, Daleks fight Cybermen as well as the Doc himself, well planned action scenes, and some of the most disturbing depictions of creating Cybermen, and what's in their bodies I myself have seen.

I think, with good writers who care for Trek, Roddenberry's vision of a better life, good animators, an animated Trek would work...that both the devoted Trek fan and Joe Sixpack can both like.
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Old December 1 2011, 10:04 PM   #150
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Re: Re-booting TNG For TV?

The only reason why Star Trek would or should be made animation style is if The Cartoon Network is interested in it. Therefore, the shows that are already on The Cartoon Network are the relevant reference point. Shows made in Japan are not relevant. This is not about artistry or quality, it's about a cold-blooded business decision.

I'd rather have live-action Star Trek. Animation is only preferable if it's the only way it will happen at all.
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