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Old July 30 2011, 09:08 PM   #46
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I do expect the dogfighting to remind me of Star Wars.
The first part of the trailer strongly reminded me of Star Wars, but I'm not sure that's such a good thing. This is an actual historical story, and I'd like a movie that presents a story and characters that I can believe actually existed. I sincerely doubt the real Red Tails spent their time making cornball speeches.
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Old July 30 2011, 09:32 PM   #47
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Checkmate wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
I'm not understanding why people are using the fact that HBO came out with a movie about the Airmen over a decade ago as an excuse not to see this one.
I, personally, never said anything of the sort. I just pointed out that it's nearly identical to that movie as far as the storytelling is going and that the special effects -- the only thing that it would have going for it -- are obvious and kind of cheap looking. I also pointed out that they made absolutely no mention of what the movie is actually about, instead preferring to spin it as some kind of work of fiction instead, which is pretty damn insulting to the people it's supposed to be celebrating.
I don't know how you can make the call that Red Tails is nearly identical to Tuskegee Airmen based solely on a few clips. Both films are dealing with similar subject matter, but to say they are identical based off of what has been presented to us in that trailer is stretching it.

Granted, they didn't spell out it is the Tuskegee Airmen (from what I recall), but I think the trailer established that this a story about WW2, black pilots, fighting for their country and self-respect while fighting against domestic discrimination and the Nazis. That's not too shabby for a couple minutes. It didn't really focus on one character or supply us with any names, but it did lay out the stakes the men are up against with some aerial combat action shots. I don't think they spun it as some kind of work of fiction, and I don't see how you came to that conclusion.

Perhaps it is a work of fiction (like Spike Lee's Miracle at St. Anna), a fictionalized take on the Tuskegee Airmen, which is fine in my book, though hopefully it will be historically accurate. Even the HBO show's account has been criticized. I attended a program held by the son of the one of the Airmen and he was saying something along those lines. I didn't get a chance to ask him for more information about he felt was in error with the HBO movie.
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Old July 30 2011, 10:43 PM   #48
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Checkmate wrote: View Post
I also pointed out that they made absolutely no mention of what the movie is actually about, instead preferring to spin it as some kind of work of fiction instead, which is pretty damn insulting to the people it's supposed to be celebrating.
How was it not made clear that the film is about the first black aviators in the US military serving in ground attack and bomber escort roles during WWII? That's what the film is actually about at its most basic level, besides other themes like overcoming adversity and bigotry and so forth, which was also touched upon.

Plus, despite the fact that the characters and some events are fictionalized (which contrasts with the more historically accurate 'The Tuskegee Airmen' and gives a good reason why the two films should be complimentary to each other rather than redundant), the film also touched on some pretty specific historical moments:

- The 332nd being criticized for having no aerial kills when they were initially tasked with ground attack/air support missions; used as a means to try and disband the group.

- The sinking of a German destroyer with machine gun fire only (Although they were flying P-47s at the time IIRC and not P-51s, but that's an understandable filmmaking choice to avoid having to explain that they changed aircraft four times. But they still got in the transition from their first aircraft - P-40s - to their last aircraft of the war - the P-51).

- The fact that many other escort fighter groups either took to chasing after the enemy (being seemingly more interested in getting kills than protecting the bombers), stayed too far out from the bombers to be of any use, or left too early. The Red Tails always stuck with the bombers and lost an extraordinarily low (compared to other groups) number of bombers as a result, thus earning their loyalty.

- The attack by German Me-262 jet fighters during the raid on the Daimler-Benz tank factory in Berlin (though that may not be mentioned by name) in which three Me-262s were shot down by three individual pilots. The group received a Distinguished Unit Citation as a result.

So, I see this as a film that should work nicely alongside The Tuskegee Airmen in giving less historical characterization but more spectacular aerial fighting and perhaps reenactment of more specific events (mentioned above) where the other film could not due to budget, while still hitting on the essential message of triumphing over adversity and facing enemies both at home and abroad.

Plus, when the Me-262s showed up it was pretty awesome. I rewatched that part several times.
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Old July 30 2011, 11:11 PM   #49
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The first part of the trailer strongly reminded me of Star Wars, but I'm not sure that's such a good thing. This is an actual historical story, and I'd like a movie that presents a story and characters that I can believe actually existed.
Since Star Wars combat was modeled after WWII aerial combat, I am interested see how the movie skirts the line between the tropes of entertainment that Lucasfilm helped established on one hand and realism on the other. With Lucasfilm now doing extensive aerial combat, beyond its brief treatment in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, this extended chapter in the depiction of dogfighting in film since 1977 has come full circle. Or if you prefer, the circle is now complete. But yeah, I want things to stay on the side of that line that reality is on, first and foremost.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
- The fact that many other escort fighter groups either took to chasing after the enemy (being seemingly more interested in getting kills than protecting the bombers), stayed too far out from the bombers to be of any use, or left too early. The Red Tails always stuck with the bombers and lost an extraordinarily low (compared to other groups) number of bombers as a result, thus earning their loyalty.
Already, the trailer promises that Red Tails will go deeper than Top Gun's, "I'm not...leaving...my wingman." (Or is this concept also redundant to address?)

Plus, when the Me-262s showed up it was pretty awesome. I rewatched that part several times.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too.
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Old July 31 2011, 12:02 AM   #50
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
I do expect the dogfighting to remind me of Star Wars.
The first part of the trailer strongly reminded me of Star Wars, but I'm not sure that's such a good thing.
It would be funny if there was an easter egg of a x-wing fighter or "Roger Bravo leader!"

The early scenes did evoke a star wars aerial flight.
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Old July 31 2011, 01:00 AM   #51
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
How was it not made clear that the film is about the first black aviators in the US military serving in ground attack and bomber escort roles during WWII? [snip lots of armchair expert prattling]
Checkmate wrote:
It's even strongly hinted that its a work of fiction, as the only way you'd know otherwise is if you already knew.
Missed that part?
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Old July 31 2011, 01:41 AM   #52
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Checkmate wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
How was it not made clear that the film is about the first black aviators in the US military serving in ground attack and bomber escort roles during WWII? [snip lots of armchair expert prattling]
Checkmate wrote:
It's even strongly hinted that its a work of fiction, as the only way you'd know otherwise is if you already knew.
Missed that part?
Isn't that true of any movie based on or inspired by historical events? If you didn't know Vasily Zaytsev was a real person or that the lions of Tsavo were real, the largely fictionalized films of 'Enemy at the Gates' and 'The Ghost and the Darkness' based on them might seem to be made up out of whole cloth if not for the disclaimers in them. That's probably why they included the "Inspired by true events" disclaimer in this trailer too, huh?

Do you have an actual point in any of this, or is it just another excuse for you to whine and act undeservedly superior to everyone else? I wasn't rude to you before the comments you made above.
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Last edited by Locutus of Bored; July 31 2011 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Added a couple film examples
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Old July 31 2011, 04:02 AM   #53
Cmndr J Crichton
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Dude, Checkmate, you saw TWO minutes of the movie. How can you say they don't celebrate the men ythey are portraying from TWO minutes of the movie?
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Old July 31 2011, 03:51 PM   #54
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

^ In the land of the Internet, it is acceptable to form a complete opinion of something no matter how complete or incomplete our knowledge of it is.
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Old July 31 2011, 05:17 PM   #55
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

"Inspired by True Events". Not a documentary. Relax and enjoy the movie already.
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Old July 31 2011, 05:29 PM   #56
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

I see the fanboy hatred of the Lucas is strong in this thread.

Movie looks cool, might be a nice January surprise.
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Old July 31 2011, 05:38 PM   #57
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

I've been waiting for this for years...

If the dogfights end up looking like Star Wars ones, that'll be because the SW ones are based on old WW2 footage - that's what he used as temp shots for SW before the FX were done.
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Old July 31 2011, 06:17 PM   #58
Mr. Adventure
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
I don't know if they're trying to pass it off as fiction
I would guess that in the trailer, the words "Inspired by TRUE EVENTS" are meant to imply that the movie was, you know, inspired by true events.
Aah, well, I didn't specifically remember that and didn't rewatch the trailer so I was responding to the post itself at face value.
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Old August 1 2011, 06:10 AM   #59
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Plus, when the Me-262s showed up it was pretty awesome. I rewatched that part several times.
Yeah, that piqued my interest as well.

This looks like it could be good. I'll probably go see it, unless the reviews are bad.

Speaking of war stories about aviators struggling against discrimination as well as the enemy--at one point, Alexander Siddig was involved in a movie project about the "Night Witches," a highly-decorated all-female Soviet night bomber squadron. I wonder whatever happened to that? Not to take anything away from the Tuskegee Airmen, but they at least got to fly front-line fighter planes. The Night Witches had to make do with the Po-2 biplane, which attracted nicknames like the "Sewing Machine" and the "Flying Desk."
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Old August 1 2011, 04:26 PM   #60
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Re: Lucasfilm's "Red Tails" Trailer Now Online

^^^
I'd be interested in seeing that movie.
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