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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 22 2011, 06:38 AM   #1
Mojochi
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Picard's Mechanical Heart

I guess it's a good thing he finally swallowed his pride after roughly 30 years, & had the substandard one replaced, because I can't imagine that the previous model would have withstood the near death incident in Tapestry, or even the two or three times he had some kind of gadgetry attached to him, like in Chain of Command or Gambit.

Didn't his torturer actually ask him at the beginning if he was in good health or had any health concerns that should be mentioned? Might have mentioned the mechanical heart, Dude, especially when they inserted that gizmo in there with it

Now that I think of it, that Borg transformation had to have been rather taxing as well, which raises a good point. Having survived assimilation with a mechanical heart, would not the Borg consider that a very useful technology to incorporate into the collective? I imagine loads of drones being retrofitted with Locutus hearts, which might serve better & longer than a biological one

Another thing that always bugged me was "Rascals". Due to some oddball anomaly, the folks were reverted to a younger state. Now, Picard's heart is designed for an adult, which would not be compatible with a child's, therefore resulting in a lack of a functional heart, or if somehow, he regenerated to have a real heart again, then what happened to the mechanical one? I imagine it still being stuck in his chest somehow.... killing him

Anyway, if somehow he managed to regenerate a heart in that situation, without being killed by his mechanical one, might that not be a very important consideration in continuing to stay a child & retain a healthier status?

I'm thinking way to heavily about that silly episode
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Old July 22 2011, 11:54 AM   #2
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Now that I think of it, that Borg transformation had to have been rather taxing as well, which raises a good point. Having survived assimilation with a mechanical heart, would not the Borg consider that a very useful technology to incorporate into the collective? I imagine loads of drones being retrofitted with Locutus hearts, which might serve better & longer than a biological one
Good point! Maybe that was the reason the Borg went after him - the technology! It was never that they changed their modus-oporandi that annoys so many people! They were subsequently changed by his human mind flooding the collective with feelings though.
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Old July 22 2011, 03:37 PM   #3
Anwar
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

How do we know the Borg didn't upgrade or alter his mechanical heart in the first place? They saw Data as obsolete so clearly it would be the same with Picard's own mechanical parts.
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Old July 22 2011, 10:12 PM   #4
KNH
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

On the borg issue, I'd like to think of them to make only necessary/effective upgrades. If the heart was reasonably similar to his natural one and hearts don't need to be replaced to interact or perform with borg parts, they'd probably just leave it be and not waste resources to upgrade it.

Though, the point with Rascals is a very valid, and slightly disturbing one.
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Old July 22 2011, 11:39 PM   #5
CaptainStoner
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

It's why he hates children.
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Old July 23 2011, 04:16 AM   #6
Mark 2000
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

The mechanical heart never made much sense. They can clone people. We can clone ears. Certainly somewhere in the middle they could have cloned him a new heart.
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Old July 23 2011, 06:07 AM   #7
Tiberius
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Didn't his torturer actually ask him at the beginning if he was in good health or had any health concerns that should be mentioned? Might have mentioned the mechanical heart, Dude, especially when they inserted that gizmo in there with it
You really wanna give a man who's about to torture you details about your weaknesses?

"Do you have any medical conditions I should know about?"

"Yes, I'm deathly alergic to peanuts."

"ALL RIGHT, MEN, DIP THE NEEDLES INTO PEANUT SAUCE FIRST!!!"
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Old July 23 2011, 06:30 AM   #8
Mojochi
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
Didn't his torturer actually ask him at the beginning if he was in good health or had any health concerns that should be mentioned? Might have mentioned the mechanical heart, Dude, especially when they inserted that gizmo in there with it
You really wanna give a man who's about to torture you details about your weaknesses?

"Do you have any medical conditions I should know about?"

"Yes, I'm deathly alergic to peanuts."

"ALL RIGHT, MEN, DIP THE NEEDLES INTO PEANUT SAUCE FIRST!!!"
Well, there's another way to look at that. We'll call it... optimism. He's a torturer. The man has already admitted that if he's displeased with you, he'll kill you. He can kill you in any number of gruesome ways. Therefore, the only real weakness you need to be concerned with is your susceptibility to death, in general

However, given that something as grand as an artificial heart could very likely be discovered rather easily anyhow, wouldn't it be prudent to err on the side of safety? I mean, in the unlikely event that they might decide on other plans besides killing you, it would be rather unfortunate were you to allow yourself to be accidentally killed solely due to a lack of being forthcoming

Madred: "Gee, I wish he'd told me about the tin ticker. I might have gone a bit easier on the zapping"

Jellico: "We want him returned.... immediately!"

Lemec: "Well, we would, but all we did was zap him, & the feable old git just croaked on us"
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Old July 23 2011, 07:04 AM   #9
BlobVanDam
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Poopday Machine wrote: View Post
The mechanical heart never made much sense. They can clone people. We can clone ears. Certainly somewhere in the middle they could have cloned him a new heart.
Worf got a spine, so surely they could make a heart too. I think they just wanted it to seem futuristic and high tech, because it's not like we really see people in Trek walking around with robotic terminator arms or badass metal plates in their skull.
My only suggestion would be that it's because a mechanical heart is better than a human heart, but that doesn't really fit with what we've seen of the Trek philosophy in other episodes and series.
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Old July 23 2011, 07:37 AM   #10
Tiberius
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Mojochi wrote: View Post
Didn't his torturer actually ask him at the beginning if he was in good health or had any health concerns that should be mentioned? Might have mentioned the mechanical heart, Dude, especially when they inserted that gizmo in there with it
You really wanna give a man who's about to torture you details about your weaknesses?

"Do you have any medical conditions I should know about?"

"Yes, I'm deathly alergic to peanuts."

"ALL RIGHT, MEN, DIP THE NEEDLES INTO PEANUT SAUCE FIRST!!!"
Well, there's another way to look at that. We'll call it... optimism. He's a torturer. The man has already admitted that if he's displeased with you, he'll kill you. He can kill you in any number of gruesome ways. Therefore, the only real weakness you need to be concerned with is your susceptibility to death, in general
But he doesn't want to kill you. He wants to torture you. And if you have a weakness which makes it easier for him to do that, he'd be dumb not to use it. So why tell him about it?

However, given that something as grand as an artificial heart could very likely be discovered rather easily anyhow, wouldn't it be prudent to err on the side of safety? I mean, in the unlikely event that they might decide on other plans besides killing you, it would be rather unfortunate were you to allow yourself to be accidentally killed solely due to a lack of being forthcoming

Madred: "Gee, I wish he'd told me about the tin ticker. I might have gone a bit easier on the zapping"

Jellico: "We want him returned.... immediately!"

Lemec: "Well, we would, but all we did was zap him, & the feable old git just croaked on us"
I thought you said an artificial heart could be discovered very easily. If so, why would Picard die from it not being known?
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Old July 23 2011, 10:52 AM   #11
Cakemixo
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Didn't his torturer actually ask him at the beginning if he was in good health or had any health concerns that should be mentioned? Might have mentioned the mechanical heart, Dude, especially when they inserted that gizmo in there with it
If I was being tortured, I wouldn't mention it. Why give them ammunition they can use against me?

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Now that I think of it, that Borg transformation had to have been rather taxing as well, which raises a good point. Having survived assimilation with a mechanical heart, would not the Borg consider that a very useful technology to incorporate into the collective? I imagine loads of drones being retrofitted with Locutus hearts, which might serve better & longer than a biological one
They could have artifical hearts already.

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Another thing that always bugged me was "Rascals". Due to some oddball anomaly, the folks were reverted to a younger state. Now, Picard's heart is designed for an adult, which would not be compatible with a child's, therefore resulting in a lack of a functional heart, or if somehow, he regenerated to have a real heart again, then what happened to the mechanical one? I imagine it still being stuck in his chest somehow.... killing him

Anyway, if somehow he managed to regenerate a heart in that situation, without being killed by his mechanical one, might that not be a very important consideration in continuing to stay a child & retain a healthier status?

I'm thinking way to heavily about that silly episode
lol.

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Old July 25 2011, 10:19 AM   #12
Start Wreck
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

KNH wrote: View Post
Though, the point with Rascals is a very valid, and slightly disturbing one.
The transporter had no trouble creating smaller uniforms for everybody, so a smaller heart should be no problem either.

No, it doesn't make sense. *shrug*
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Old July 25 2011, 11:18 AM   #13
Mojochi
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Tiberius wrote: View Post
But he doesn't want to kill you. He wants to torture you. And if you have a weakness which makes it easier for him to do that, he'd be dumb not to use it. So why tell him about it?
He's willing to kill you, but you are correct, he might not want to. So, how would an artificial heart, which serves only the purpose of keeping you alive, make it easier for him to torture you? Anything they did to it would ultimately result in circulatory system failure, meaning death, & tampering with circulatory function wouldn't even be a very a useful method for torture, only ease of murder or accidental death.

I suppose they could increase or decrease the heart rate of it, which would be rather unpleasant, prior to you dying, (Like a heart attack) but not very fruitful in extracting information, or more importantly, causing the agony a torturer seeks to produce, nor could it be used against someone in a prolonged way without death occurring. It circulates blood, & doesn't have pain receptors. So basically it works or doesn't, & the only purpose it could serve in torture is the psychological torture of death fear, which is already present

Tiberius wrote: View Post
I thought you said an artificial heart could be discovered very easily. If so, why would Picard die from it not being known?
Whether it's easily discoverable or not doesn't really matter. That they could possibly be unfamiliar enough with the specific technology, for example, could have the same unfortunate result. I wouldn't be willing to risk that they can discover it without a warning. I'd be more interested in preventing potential accidental damage to it & death?

I mean, if I had artificial eyes, like Geordi, & it was not common knowledge, I might keep that weakness secret, but the artificial heart? Nah... I'm speaking up about that one, because the risk is greater than the potential threat
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Old July 25 2011, 06:57 PM   #14
Mytran
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Start Wreck wrote: View Post
KNH wrote: View Post
Though, the point with Rascals is a very valid, and slightly disturbing one.
The transporter had no trouble creating smaller uniforms for everybody, so a smaller heart should be no problem either.

No, it doesn't make sense. *shrug*
A good point about the heart!

However, the scene in question showed the kids arriving in baggy, adult sized clothes.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/thum...bum=132&page=2

(note the long sleeves)
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Old July 26 2011, 06:09 AM   #15
Mojochi
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Re: Picard's Mechanical Heart

Start Wreck wrote: View Post
KNH wrote: View Post
Though, the point with Rascals is a very valid, and slightly disturbing one.
The transporter had no trouble creating smaller uniforms for everybody, so a smaller heart should be no problem either.

No, it doesn't make sense. *shrug*

As Mytran pointed out. It didn't shrink their clothes or anything else not alive. Only the crew & the plants were affected


However, it is rather interesting to point out that while in sickbay, they were changed into proper fitting attire, which for some reason ended up being the exact same outfits that they'd had on as adults, even Keiko & Guinan

WTF was that all about? Seems like someone in sickbay, with a warped sense of humor was being a tool, & thought it would be rather humorous to give them their adult outfits in junior sizes
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