Yesterday's Enterprise timeline

[los2188]

So we have the Enterprise C going into the future. Was that future an alternate timeline, or a prime timeline that was later corrected, so to speak, when the E-C went back into the past...or the timeline that it was supposed to be in. It always confused me as whether the timeline was an alternate timeline, or an altered prime timeline. So what about Guinan? Did she just know that something was wrong with the current timeline?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The future as seen in this episode was the prime timeline - the only possible one (until the changes made at the end). It was the result of the Enterprise-C vanishing from the battle at Narendra Three. Presumably, the Klingons were angry that the Federation (seemingly) walked away from the battle, and that's why the Klingons declared war.

Technically speaking, the 'real' timeline - in which the Ent-C finished the battle and was destroyed - is an alternate timeline, because the ship had to go BACK at the end of the episode.

[R. Star]

I never understood all the fanfare for this episode beyond the awesome battle(for the effects of the time) at the end. When you stop and think about the whole premise of the episode, it makes no sense at all.

[AllStarEntprise]

The war with the Klingon's timeline is the alternate future. Remember the ENT-C travelled 20 years into the future through a hole in space. Which omitted them from existence. They emerged 20 years in to the future and found out what happened because they never left a mark on history. Travelling back in time corrected things because the ENT-C and her actions became apart of history. Where before their was only an omission.

Think about it in real terms. Example: If the Japanese never attacked the US in 1942 the US wouldn't have entered WWII when they did. We can't know for certain but Germany may have been successful in conquering Europe and the conflcit would have evolved to US vs Germany for the fate of the planet. Omitting the attack on Pearl Harbour would also have affected the development of the A-Bomb by American scientist. Germany was developing their own but Hilter believed more in rockets and missles over a single atomic weapon.

This is a speculative stretch but you can judge how omitting something from history can affect the future reality of something.

[Dream]

R. Star wrote:

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I never understood all the fanfare for this episode beyond the awesome battle(for the effects of the time) at the end. When you stop and think about the whole premise of the episode, it makes no sense at all.

How does it make no sense?

It's much easier to understand if you think of the entire story from the Enterprise-C crew's POV.

They get into a big battle with the Romulans, they accidently go into a future that they were were never destoryed in, they find out since they vanished the Federation and Klingon Empire is at war.

Also the space battle is NOT the only reason why this episode is well liked.

We got a great Tasha story, amazing production values, good music, the changed characters because of time shift, and good acting from everyone. It felt like a movie at times.

[robau]

R. Star wrote:

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I never understood all the fanfare for this episode beyond the awesome battle(for the effects of the time) at the end. When you stop and think about the whole premise of the episode, it makes no sense at all.

The war atmosphere I think. Everyone walking around armed and such.

[los2188]

Okay, so with all of that said, did the Enterprise C ever actually stay in that time period without going into the future, or did this happen this way all along. Meaning that they went 20 years into the future, then back to finish the battle? I mean before the E-C goes into the future, was it already known that they went into the future, then back, or has it been an unknown thing where no one, except the for Romulans maybe, that they went 20 years into the future, then back? I hope I'm not confusing anyone....not to mention myself.

[Unicron]

It was an essentially unknown event, that is their vanishing from their "proper" place in history and winding up in the possible future that resulted from that - the Klingons and the Feds were at war instead of becoming true allies, the war had apparently been one of attrition since it lasted several decades, and the Feds were finally at the stage where they were getting whupped.

To use an example, it's like the original version of the Age of Apocalypse in X-Men, before it was retconned into being a parallel Earth and not a radically changed prime Earth. Xavier's son, Legion, decided that the greatest threat to his father's dream of peaceful relations between humans and mutants was Magneto, so he traveled into the past to kill him before he became a serious threat to Xavier's vision. He ended up in a time period before the two went their separate ways, with a group of X-Men traveling back to try and stop him.

Legion almost succeeded in his goal, but at the last minute the past version of Xavier leapt in front of Magneto and took the fatal blow, causing a massive change in how history was supposed to go. Legion no longer existed because Xavier died before his conception, and Xavier's premature death caused Apocalypse to began his activities earlier than in the original history. Magneto took up Xavier's dream and founded the X-Men in the new reality, but by the time of the new "modern" era, Apocalypse's forces controlled much of the world and many of the characters in the X-universe were in considerably different places in this timeline. Some heroic characters were villainous allies of Apocalypse, while some enemies had never gone bad or had a common cause with the X-Men. Bishop was the only person, being from an alternate future himself, who remembered what the proper timeline was supposed to be and he went back into the past to stop Legion's actions. That supposedly reset the timeline to what it should have been, and ensured the X-Men their correct future.

Then the writers decided they wanted to do more stories in the AoA setting, so it was made into a parallel timeline instead.

[t_smitts]

los2188 wrote:

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So we have the Enterprise C going into the future. Was that future an alternate timeline, or a prime timeline that was later corrected, so to speak, when the E-C went back into the past...or the timeline that it was supposed to be in. It always confused me as whether the timeline was an alternate timeline, or an altered prime timeline. So what about Guinan? Did she just know that something was wrong with the current timeline?

Obviously time travel rules have invariably been whatever fits the story, I lean towards the episode beginning with 1) an original timeline, continuiting with 2) a heavily altered timeline, and finishing with 3) a restored timeline close, but not quite the same as the original.

The differences of the third timeline to the first would include:

-First and foremost, a Tasha Yar from 22 years in the future, having a half-Romulan daughter Sela, and whatever other impacts either of their lives had.
-Castillo commanding the Enterprise-C instead of Garrett and whatever different command decisions he would have made.
-The "C" crew being aware of the future (if an altered future) and some knowledge of role their absense had in shaping that future.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I don't see any reason to assume that the final product of this episode is a "third" timeline. I see it as a predestination paradox - it was always supposed to happen.

Meaning: There was never a timeline in which the Enterprise-C did not respond to the distress call and come to the Klingons' aid at Narendra III. The timeline in which the Ent-C vanished and ended up in the "war future" was necessary in order for the "real" timeline (no war) to happen.

Remember, the anomaly which caused the time travel originated during the original battle between the Ent-C and the Romulans. There was never a timeline which did not have the anomaly. So there was not, for example, a timeline where the Ent-C showed up, battled the Romulans, and was destroyed, but no time travel occurred. Am I clear?

[T'Girl]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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Am I clear?

Maybe if there were diagrams?

[R. Star]

So an alternate timeline that gets canceled out should have canceled out the alternate Yar too thus no Sela.

That lends a lot of weight to the third timeline bit. As I said the whole episode really doesn't make that much sense.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

R. Star wrote:

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So an alternate timeline that gets canceled out should have canceled out the alternate Yar too thus no Sela.

No, because the Enterprise-C eventually re-emerged back into the past. Once that was done, history was put back on its proper course.

Remember, the fact that the 'war future' will not happen in the normal timeline doesn't change the fact that it DID happen in its own.

[Green Shirt]

AllStarEntprise wrote:

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Example: If the Japanese never attacked the US in 1942 the US wouldn't have entered WWII when they did.

My Guinan-like instincts tell me that WE are in an alternate timeline, because I remember that attack occurred in 1941.

[R. Star]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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No, because the Enterprise-C eventually re-emerged back into the past. Once that was done, history was put back on its proper course.

Remember, the fact that the 'war future' will not happen in the normal timeline doesn't change the fact that it DID happen in its own.

Then the way you suggest it, again that points to a 3rd timeline.

Original timeline everything is rosy, Enterprise C saved Klingons and they and Federation become BFFs.

Altered timeline, torpedoes(?) cause temporal hole and Enterprise-C. No BFFs and they fight.

Enterprise C goes back through the rift, which would then be a past of the altered timeline, but with Yar and alternate crew... so we get Sela.