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Old July 21 2011, 06:02 PM   #1
Luminus
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Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

I've been watching several episodes on Netflix and recently finished watching this episode. In it, there's a line that says "Starfleet has dispatched two vessels to meet with Voyager, scheduled for five or six years' time."

However, at this point, Voyager is at least 30,000 light years from home at maximum warp. How does Starfleet have vessels capable of going that distance in less than 6 years? Is this why the Enterprise E is capable of flying from the Neutral Zone to Earth so quickly in First Contact?
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Old July 22 2011, 02:38 AM   #2
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Voyager was 30K light years from Sector 001 (Earth). Federations have long range exploration vessels in the outskirts of their boarders and that's probably the ships they sent to meet Voyager.
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Old July 22 2011, 03:17 AM   #3
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Writing in Voyager got very bad in the last 2 seasons. We get stupid ideas like being able to use any red giant to form a geodesic fold and while most matter cannot survive it, somehow nanoprobes can and somehow it's 'easier' for Ferengi to try and get some nanoprobes from the Delta Quadrant than scour for Borg corpses around the Alpha or Beta Quadrants. Then some crazy Bajoran decides to revive his rebellion... 30,000ly away.

Star Trek kept their technology limits somewhat consistent, but with the permanent contact via "Pathfinder" (how the hell could Barclay adequately guess Voyager's position given *FIVE* leaps of hundreds to thousands of light years since "Message in a Bottle"?), all logic and all technology limits went out the window. Even travelling more than several light years, a message would be delayed (need subspace relays and even then there was a delay) and here, one can communicate across the galaxy once a month, then we get transphasic torpedoes and ablative hull armor.

I loved Voyager, but there were many cringe-filled episodes late in (I find them more unbearable than "Threshold", "The Fight", and the so-called Trilogy of Terror, none of which I think are that bad), and "Life Line" (prodigal son returns, wants estranged father to love him and recognize his accomplishments. Father is too stubborn to ask for help. "Father, help me help you") is like a story from some cheesy 80s drama.

I would actually pin the blame on the permanent contact concept. It led to multiple Barclay episodes, including him & future Janeway stealing 1 episode in the series finale 2-parter and the viewer being forced to accept him as an honorary crewmember (it was the prelude to "These are the Voyages"), each of which was either not centered on the Voyager crew ("Pathfinder", "Inside Man") or had an atrocious concept ("Life Line", "Repression", "Inside Man", "Author, Author"). Permanent contact also removed that isolation that defined Voyager. Suddenly, 30,000ly in any direction isn't so far away. And we get Ferengi and Klingons and holograms imitating all the familiar races too (all of that except for the Ferengi is not blamable on permanent contact).
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Old July 22 2011, 09:18 AM   #4
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

The continuity error I find much more astounding is how Lewis Zimmerman in Life Line has next to nothing in common with the man we met in Doctor Bashir, I Presume.

Note to Voyager's writers: If a character's established personality doesn't match the story you'd like to tell, change the story - not the character!
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Old July 23 2011, 09:16 PM   #5
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Laydin wrote: View Post
Voyager was 30K light years from Sector 001 (Earth). Federations have long range exploration vessels in the outskirts of their boarders and that's probably the ships they sent to meet Voyager.
30,000 light years is 30 years at maximum warp. Those deep space vessels could only possibly be somewhere in the Beta quadrant (let's say near the Delta Quadrant, for argument's sake). 30 - 6 = a 24 year difference. There's no way Starfleet has vessels that are 24 years away from Earth at maximum warp.

I think what DeepSpaceWine said was right.
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Old July 24 2011, 08:56 AM   #6
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Why not?

Vulcans live for 300 years, they wouldn't mind undertaking a 50 year long mission if it seemed logical.

Kelvans are basically immortal, and a few of them have probably signed up since their run in with Kirk.

Then of course they could have been generational ships sent out a century early.

You all remember that Robert Picardo wrote (most?) of this episode?
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Old July 24 2011, 09:23 AM   #7
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

How long was the initial journey? 70 years for 70,000 light years? They were down to about 30,000 by that point, so that's 30 years. So for a ship going to same speed to meet them half way from Earth would take about 15 years. But they wouldn't be dispatching ships to meet with them if it wasn't taking any time off the journey. Did they mention the ships as being faster? I can't remember. But to catch up in 5 years, they'd need to be going about 5 times faster than Voyager?

If they had an experimental warp drive, it's not unrealistic considering the way the warp scale works. Or maybe the ship just had a much higher sustainable cruising velocity than Voyager. I know they couldn't make their minds up about Voyager's true cruise speed.
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Old July 24 2011, 09:56 AM   #8
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

ADMIRAL HAYES [on monitor]: Hello, Captain. I hope this message finds you well. From what I understand, it has not been easy, but I want you to know that a lot of people here are very proud of what you've accomplished. I also want to assure you that we have not given up finding a way to get you home. We've redirected two deep space vessels toward your position. If all goes well, they could rendezvous with you in the next five to six years.
JANEWAY: Computer, advance to time index one twenty one point four.
ADMIRAL HAYES [on monitor]: as we get closer and our conversations become more frequent. When you respond to this message, please let us know of any casualties. I'm sure you've had more than your share. I'm anxious to know the status of your crew, the Maquis, first contacts that you've made, interactions with the Borg, but there'll be time for everything. Our thoughts are with you. Talk to you soon.
CHAKOTAY: What.
JANEWAY: Status of the Maquis.
CHAKOTAY: Do you find that surprising?
"deep space" vessels. Which probably means cities in space deigned to exist perpetually outside and well past the Federation boarders and even known space. Picard was talking about colony ships that could support 15,000 civilians in Ensigns of Command...

A deep range craft to be in deep space had to have been flying for a while which means it would be an older design, and slower than the newer deep space ships still making their way out of the heart of the empire, unless there is some quantum advance in technology that the latest ships start lapping the last generation.
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Old July 24 2011, 10:31 PM   #9
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
ADMIRAL HAYES [on monitor]: Hello, Captain. I hope this message finds you well. From what I understand, it has not been easy, but I want you to know that a lot of people here are very proud of what you've accomplished. I also want to assure you that we have not given up finding a way to get you home. We've redirected two deep space vessels toward your position. If all goes well, they could rendezvous with you in the next five to six years.
JANEWAY: Computer, advance to time index one twenty one point four.
ADMIRAL HAYES [on monitor]: as we get closer and our conversations become more frequent. When you respond to this message, please let us know of any casualties. I'm sure you've had more than your share. I'm anxious to know the status of your crew, the Maquis, first contacts that you've made, interactions with the Borg, but there'll be time for everything. Our thoughts are with you. Talk to you soon.
CHAKOTAY: What.
JANEWAY: Status of the Maquis.
CHAKOTAY: Do you find that surprising?
"deep space" vessels. Which probably means cities in space deigned to exist perpetually outside and well past the Federation boarders and even known space. Picard was talking about colony ships that could support 15,000 civilians in Ensigns of Command...

A deep range craft to be in deep space had to have been flying for a while which means it would be an older design, and slower than the newer deep space ships still making their way out of the heart of the empire, unless there is some quantum advance in technology that the latest ships start lapping the last generation.
So the 2 deep space crafts with probably a decade old or more technology is going to rendezvous with Voyager and what? Slow them down with their archaic engines? After all this analysis, I'm pretty sure this is an error.
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Old July 25 2011, 01:15 AM   #10
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

You're forgetting that these ships are dropping communication buoys (We saw Archer's Enterprise doing this) extending the border of known space, so although they are a hell of a long way out, they still have a clear line of communication with Starfleet command and earth.

They're kept apprised of new technology that they can fabricate aboardship start of the art tech to replace anything gathering cobwebs so that they're not driving exactly an antique.

Besides a decade back would only put such a ship comparable with Enterprise d, and three decades back would be comparable to Rachel Garrets Enterprise C which didn't seem too unimpressive.
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Old July 26 2011, 06:17 PM   #11
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
You're forgetting that these ships are dropping communication buoys (We saw Archer's Enterprise doing this) extending the border of known space, so although they are a hell of a long way out, they still have a clear line of communication with Starfleet command and earth.

They're kept apprised of new technology that they can fabricate aboardship start of the art tech to replace anything gathering cobwebs so that they're not driving exactly an antique.

Besides a decade back would only put such a ship comparable with Enterprise d, and three decades back would be comparable to Rachel Garrets Enterprise C which didn't seem too unimpressive.
Some tech can't be outfitted. We see that in "Endgame." It's one of the reasons why new ships have to be built in the first place, instead of just upgrading old ships. 10 years is a VERY long time, in terms of technology. Many things would have changed.
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Old July 26 2011, 10:16 PM   #12
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Benteen smacked the shit out of the Defiant in an Excelsior Class Refit.

There's only one reason that the Intrepid wouldn't be compatible with bog standard future tech... And that's if the model was so crappy and flawed that it had been recalled (Or they had all been destroyed in battle after som admiral foolishly thought any Intrepid could do what Voyager had?), in so that the engineers didn't have to worry about making the Intrepid compatiable.

Would the USS Rhode Island, Captain Kim's dinky little Nova Class beard be allowed out of Spacedock if it didn't have all the up to date features that even a shuttle craft had? Ipso facto, Admiral Janeway could have taken Kim's ship from the mothball fleet, spanked it. Kim didn't agree to talk because he loved the old coot, it's because his ship didn't stand a chance against a one woman dingy if it had all the modcons and his ship didn't.

(I changed my mind half way through this post. Weird, no?)
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Old July 27 2011, 06:02 AM   #13
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Benteen smacked the shit out of the Defiant in an Excelsior Class Refit.

There's only one reason that the Intrepid wouldn't be compatible with bog standard future tech... And that's if the model was so crappy and flawed that it had been recalled (Or they had all been destroyed in battle after som admiral foolishly thought any Intrepid could do what Voyager had?), in so that the engineers didn't have to worry about making the Intrepid compatiable.

Would the USS Rhode Island, Captain Kim's dinky little Nova Class beard be allowed out of Spacedock if it didn't have all the up to date features that even a shuttle craft had? Ipso facto, Admiral Janeway could have taken Kim's ship from the mothball fleet, spanked it. Kim didn't agree to talk because he loved the old coot, it's because his ship didn't stand a chance against a one woman dingy if it had all the modcons and his ship didn't.

(I changed my mind half way through this post. Weird, no?)
How, exactly, are they going to refit these ships without Drydoc? The fact that they did it on Voyager is highly suspect, but then that's my point. It's just not believable.
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Old July 27 2011, 07:06 AM   #14
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

They land.
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Old July 27 2011, 10:19 PM   #15
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Re: Life Line episode logical/continuity error?

Luminus wrote: View Post
10 years is a VERY long time, in terms of technology. Many things would have changed.
You only say that because we've been living in a technological growth spurt since around the 60s, which may be coming to an end.
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