Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, DVD - Page 31

Broccoli · August 12 2011, 04:37 AM

The Old Mixer wrote:

I'm surprised they didn't name Jones' character "Duffy", after Steve Rogers' more memorable Sgt. Carter-style drill sergeant in the comics.

While he wasn't referred to by name, Duffy did make an appearance during the running exercise when Steve caused the pole to fall.

Also, the use of Phillips makes more sense as Duffy was nothing more than comic relief and had nothing to do with Captain America or Project Rebirth. Plus, outside of the very random appearance, the character has been gone from the comics since the Golden Age. Phillips, on the other hand, has had much more of a presence and importance in Cap's comics that Duffy ever had.

Chris3123 · August 12 2011, 02:46 PM

Dennis wrote:

Chris3123 wrote:

Not saying you're lying, but could you provide a source for that? Your link doesn't say anything about it not working.

And in fact it seems it worked just fine. LOLA, the folks who actually did the effects work and so should know more than the other folks involved have this to say about Deeny:

To achieve the virtual trickery, Paramount enlisted Lola Visual Effects. The Santa Monica, Calif.-based company had performed similar magic doubling Armie Hammer so he could play the Winklevoss twins in “The Social Network.”

“Leander is the unsung hero of this,” Edson Williams, visual effects supervisor for Lola, told TheWrap. “He was very dedicated and he was very aware of mimicking Chris’ timing. He wasn’t trying to get his performance out there. It’s his biggest credit and it’s a role where you never see his face.”

Lola employed three main techniques to make the all-American Evans appear weak and spindly, a combination of digitally shrinking or scaling down Evans, body doubles (that’s where Deeny came in), and grafting a digital file of Evans’ facial performance onto Deeny’s frame.

To attach Evans' head to Deeny’s body, the filmmakers would first shoot Evans in a scene. Then they would have Deeny watch what Evans had done on video playback, so he could mimic his movements precisely. Lastly they would film a clean plate, this is a pass devoid of principal actors that allows the background to be replaced behind the shrunken Evans.

Capturing the Evans’ expressions by grafting his face to Deeny’s body presented some challenges, namely that the necks of actor and his double were dramatically different. That necessitated having Lola digitally graft or project footage of Evans’ face below the Adam’s Apple onto Deeny’s frame. Had they tried to match the actors at different anatomical points, say below the chin, the differences would have been too pronounced for the trick to have worked.

“The heady replacements were tricky, because you were taking the head of a rhinoceros and putting it on the body of a gazelle,” Williams said. “The difference in muscles, in connective tissue was so vast, that it was very difficult to make the necks match up.”

If you watch the movie more than once you notice the many instances in which nothing more than body doubling was likely used.

Yeah, that's the article I quoted and linked to earlier in the thread. Thanks anyway.

Gov Kodos · August 12 2011, 03:01 PM

timothy wrote:

Gov Kodos wrote:

timothy wrote:

saw it agin today for a second time and I love this movie so much. question, the sceen where the red skull was posing for a paint and the scientist came asked him a question. the music during that scene was'nt it the same music from the movie excalibur?

Pretty sure the music during the portrait scene is from Wagner, I believe it is Siegfried's Funeral March but I'd need to see the movie again to be sure. It is also used in Excalibur, my favorite music piece in Excalibur was using Karl Orff's Carmina Burana when Arthur and the knights are riding out of Camelot for the last battle.

cool thanks I love that sound track. DO you think they'll use it conan?

I suppose it's possible Wagner would be right at home doing Hollywood style bombastic soundtracks.
The Funeral March by Wagner

and Carmina Burana 'O Fortuna' by Orff

Admiral Buzzkill · August 12 2011, 03:07 PM

Chris3123 wrote:

Thanks anyway.

You're welcome - anyway.

JD · August 12 2011, 07:47 PM

Dennis wrote:

Chris3123 wrote:

Not saying you're lying, but could you provide a source for that? Your link doesn't say anything about it not working.

And in fact it seems it worked just fine. LOLA, the folks who actually did the effects work and so should know more than the other folks involved have this to say about Deeny:

To achieve the virtual trickery, Paramount enlisted Lola Visual Effects. The Santa Monica, Calif.-based company had performed similar magic doubling Armie Hammer so he could play the Winklevoss twins in “The Social Network.”

“Leander is the unsung hero of this,” Edson Williams, visual effects supervisor for Lola, told TheWrap. “He was very dedicated and he was very aware of mimicking Chris’ timing. He wasn’t trying to get his performance out there. It’s his biggest credit and it’s a role where you never see his face.”

Lola employed three main techniques to make the all-American Evans appear weak and spindly, a combination of digitally shrinking or scaling down Evans, body doubles (that’s where Deeny came in), and grafting a digital file of Evans’ facial performance onto Deeny’s frame.

To attach Evans' head to Deeny’s body, the filmmakers would first shoot Evans in a scene. Then they would have Deeny watch what Evans had done on video playback, so he could mimic his movements precisely. Lastly they would film a clean plate, this is a pass devoid of principal actors that allows the background to be replaced behind the shrunken Evans.

Capturing the Evans’ expressions by grafting his face to Deeny’s body presented some challenges, namely that the necks of actor and his double were dramatically different. That necessitated having Lola digitally graft or project footage of Evans’ face below the Adam’s Apple onto Deeny’s frame. Had they tried to match the actors at different anatomical points, say below the chin, the differences would have been too pronounced for the trick to have worked.

“The heady replacements were tricky, because you were taking the head of a rhinoceros and putting it on the body of a gazelle,” Williams said. “The difference in muscles, in connective tissue was so vast, that it was very difficult to make the necks match up.”

If you watch the movie more than once you notice the many instances in which nothing more than body doubling was likely used.

I have a feeling in a lot of the scenes where you don't see skinny Steve's face, it was probably the body double.

Admiral Buzzkill · August 12 2011, 07:57 PM

JD wrote:

I have a feeling in a lot of the scenes where you don't see skinny Steve's face, it was probably the body double.

Yeah, that's a safe bet.

The Old Mixer · August 12 2011, 09:25 PM

Broccoli wrote:

Plus, outside of the very random appearance, the character has been gone from the comics since the Golden Age.

Not true. He was a regular in the WWII-era Cap adventures that ran for a spell in Tales of Suspense in the '60s, which is how I knew of him in the first place. Are you telling me that this Phillips turns up all the time now? Wasn't the case back in the day, but I haven't actively followed new comics for well over a decade. In my reading experience, Phillips = origin retelling character, Duffy = regular supporting cast member in WWII-era adventures.

Captaindemotion · August 13 2011, 01:50 AM

I thought this was great and voted A+.

Evans - who would not have been my first choice - played a blinder and just nailed this part so well. He totally got the compasssion, humanity, decency and courage of the character. He will be Cap for years, just like Reeve was Superman.

Johnston proved his ability with period movies and showed that The Rocketeer wasn't a one-off. This was a 40s cliffhanger to the Nth degree. Would it be too much to hope that every future period superhero movie - Phantom, The Shadow etc - was directed by him?

Not a cast member put a foot or line wrong. From Tommy Lee Jones, to Hayley Attwell, to Toby Jones. And all in between. It's worth pointing out that I recently sawLJ in No Country For Old Men, Toby in Frost/ Nixon, etc. These are heavyweight actors, putting as much into this movie as into any Oscar-botherer.

It just had a great feel-good, righteous feel to it that left you wanting more. A perfect cross between the best of recent superhero movies, cliffhangers and the likes of Where Eagles Dare. Ignore those who say there have been too many superhero movies this year. While I sadly missed Green Lantern in the cinema, I've seen all the rest. I thought Thor set the bar high, but X--Men and this movie passed it. I can't say which was better - CA is too fresh in my mind to be objective - but being second placed is no disgrace.

Roll on Avengers.

Captain Craig · August 13 2011, 03:41 PM

I saw this for the third time yesterday afternoon and it continues to hold up.
I must say that I think I experienced my first showing of a movie where the projectionist left on a 3-D lens filter that I've read about. The entire film felt dark, it was not as bright as my other two showings.

Broccoli · August 14 2011, 02:52 AM

The Old Mixer wrote:

Broccoli wrote:

Plus, outside of the very random appearance, the character has been gone from the comics since the Golden Age.

Not true. He was a regular in the WWII-era Cap adventures that ran for a spell in Tales of Suspense in the '60s, which is how I knew of him in the first place. Are you telling me that this Phillips turns up all the time now? Wasn't the case back in the day, but I haven't actively followed new comics for well over a decade. In my reading experience, Phillips = origin retelling character, Duffy = regular supporting cast member in WWII-era adventures.

Yes. Over the past twenty or so years since I've been reading, when they do flashbacks to the WWII era or have WWII era adventures, Phillips is usually involved as Cap's direct superior. Duffy, not so much.

Saxman1 · August 15 2011, 02:40 AM

I saw the movie today. I gave it a C. I'm not big on the Marvel Universe films outside of Ironman 1 and 2, which I thought were amazing, but a lot of that I chalk up to Robert Downey, Jr. However, it was nice to see Samuel L. Jackson at the end as Nick Fury: he's awesome!

Admiral Buzzkill · August 15 2011, 03:47 AM

A friend of mine went to see the movie on Wednesday and, knowing where his and my tastes are similar, I suggested that he'd be happier with the movie if he just left after the kids playing Captain America in the streets.

To my surprise, he told me the next day that he'd done just that. So I told him what he'd missed, and he agreed that it had been a good call, for him.

He's too young to have read Captain America in his original appearances, but was just past the age when most kids stopped reading comics - in those days - when Marvel started to build their little empire. So he's got no investment in Avengers, Justice League, Nick Fury - or Green Lantern, Flash, etc. He just likes movies a great deal.

Nerys Myk · August 15 2011, 05:44 AM

Broccoli wrote:

The Old Mixer wrote:

Broccoli wrote:

Plus, outside of the very random appearance, the character has been gone from the comics since the Golden Age.

Not true. He was a regular in the WWII-era Cap adventures that ran for a spell in Tales of Suspense in the '60s, which is how I knew of him in the first place. Are you telling me that this Phillips turns up all the time now? Wasn't the case back in the day, but I haven't actively followed new comics for well over a decade. In my reading experience, Phillips = origin retelling character, Duffy = regular supporting cast member in WWII-era adventures.

Yes. Over the past twenty or so years since I've been reading, when they do flashbacks to the WWII era or have WWII era adventures, Phillips is usually involved as Cap's direct superior. Duffy, not so much.

Not sure how complete or up to date this info is, but from what I can tell Philiips mostly appears in the Origin story. Chester Phillips.

stj · August 15 2011, 11:36 PM

By far the freshest part of the movie was the dance number. I don't think I want any WWI sequels.

Temis the Vorta · August 15 2011, 11:42 PM

A WWI sequel, now there's an intriguing idea! Maybe they can start working their way backwards via time travel.

View Poll Results: How do you rate Captain America: The First Avenger?
A+	34	19.21%
A	51	28.81%
A-	34	19.21%
B+	27	15.25%
B	15	8.47%
B-	5	2.82%
C+	5	2.82%
C	4	2.26%
C-	1	0.56%
D+	0	0%
D	0	0%
D-	0	0%
F	1	0.56%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

August 13 2011, 01:50 AM	#458
Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, I thought this was great and voted A+. Evans - who would not have been my first choice - played a blinder and just nailed this part so well. He totally got the compasssion, humanity, decency and courage of the character. He will be Cap for years, just like Reeve was Superman. Johnston proved his ability with period movies and showed that The Rocketeer wasn't a one-off. This was a 40s cliffhanger to the Nth degree. Would it be too much to hope that every future period superhero movie - Phantom, The Shadow etc - was directed by him? Not a cast member put a foot or line wrong. From Tommy Lee Jones, to Hayley Attwell, to Toby Jones. And all in between. It's worth pointing out that I recently sawLJ in No Country For Old Men, Toby in Frost/ Nixon, etc. These are heavyweight actors, putting as much into this movie as into any Oscar-botherer. It just had a great feel-good, righteous feel to it that left you wanting more. A perfect cross between the best of recent superhero movies, cliffhangers and the likes of Where Eagles Dare. Ignore those who say there have been too many superhero movies this year. While I sadly missed Green Lantern in the cinema, I've seen all the rest. I thought Thor set the bar high, but X--Men and this movie passed it. I can't say which was better - CA is too fresh in my mind to be objective - but being second placed is no disgrace. Roll on Avengers. __________________ Hodor!!!!!!!

August 13 2011, 03:41 PM	#459
Captain Craig Vice Admiral Location: Nashville,TN	Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, I saw this for the third time yesterday afternoon and it continues to hold up. I must say that I think I experienced my first showing of a movie where the projectionist left on a 3-D lens filter that I've read about. The entire film felt dark, it was not as bright as my other two showings. __________________ "Picard never hit me." Q-Less(DS9) "Freedom is the Right of All Sentient Beings" Optimus Prime Twitter:http://twitter.com/#!/CaptainCraig1

August 15 2011, 02:40 AM	#461
Saxman1 Commodore	Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, I saw the movie today. I gave it a C. I'm not big on the Marvel Universe films outside of Ironman 1 and 2, which I thought were amazing, but a lot of that I chalk up to Robert Downey, Jr. However, it was nice to see Samuel L. Jackson at the end as Nick Fury: he's awesome!

August 15 2011, 03:47 AM	#462
Admiral Buzzkill The Man Location: Defying Gravity	Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, A friend of mine went to see the movie on Wednesday and, knowing where his and my tastes are similar, I suggested that he'd be happier with the movie if he just left after the kids playing Captain America in the streets. To my surprise, he told me the next day that he'd done just that. So I told him what he'd missed, and he agreed that it had been a good call, for him. He's too young to have read Captain America in his original appearances, but was just past the age when most kids stopped reading comics - in those days - when Marvel started to build their little empire. So he's got no investment in Avengers, Justice League, Nick Fury - or Green Lantern, Flash, etc. He just likes movies a great deal. __________________ I had steak and a loaded baked potato for dinner on Sunday. As a steak I enjoyed it a lot, but as macaroni and cheese I thought it was disappointing.

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ABOUT US

August 15 2011, 11:36 PM	#464
stj Rear Admiral Location: the real world	Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, By far the freshest part of the movie was the dance number. I don't think I want any WWI sequels. __________________ Morals are what you do to other people. Other people, what we call society, are essential to human happiness. Therefore, morals are the path to happiness. My morals, your happiness; your morals, my happiness: It's a fair trade.

August 15 2011, 11:42 PM	#465
Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Location: Tatoinne	Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, A WWI sequel, now there's an intriguing idea! Maybe they can start working their way backwards via time travel.