Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel, DVD

[Temis the Vorta]

He should barge into the UN wearing nothing but swim trunks and a haughty expression and threaten to wage war on air-breathers unless they stop polluting the oceans and generally just messing everything up. And then he should DO it. Giant squids from the Hudson River invading New York!

Screw it, that's the next Avengers movie. Whatever foe they have lined it, it can't be as good as Namor.

[Skywalker]

Namor is about as likely to ever be in a live-action Marvel movie as Aquaman is likely to ever be in a live-action DC movie.

[Admiral_Young]

I would disagree with that. Kevin Fienge has stated that "Sub-Mariner" is among the properties they're developing right now. As stated in one of the other threads I expect this will be part of the fall news update we're supposed to be getting.

[Temis the Vorta]

If they're smart, they'll introduce Namor as a foe to the Avengers (but of course one with a sympathetic perspective). Hydra-type bwahaha villains will always be a staple, but ya gotta change it up every so often.

After the Namor-as-foe movie, then he can have his own movie. I don't see it working as well the other way around, because once we see his perspective, he's too sympathetic. But establishing him as a touchy quasi-foe will whet the audience's appetite to find out more.

And even though they've done a nice job on single-character movies being the setup for a group movie, it does make more sense to start doing it the other way around now: use Avengers to set up new characters and spin off their movies.

[Admiral_Young]

I can see them introducing Namor as the anti-hero he's always been. He is currently an X-Men right now but somehow I believe Marvel Studios have the rights lol. I could see them introducing him as a "soft" villain that ends up being convinced to join with the "Avengers" later on. It will be interesting to see what happens with Namor movie wise. I do believe that something is coming though...

[DWF]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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If they're smart, they'll introduce Namor as a foe to the Avengers (but of course one with a sympathetic perspective). Hydra-type bwahaha villains will always be a staple, but ya gotta change it up every so often.

The Avengers movie already has a villain and he was their first one anyway so it's fitting that he's the baddie in the movie.

[Skywalker]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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I would disagree with that. Kevin Fienge has stated that "Sub-Mariner" is among the properties they're developing right now. As stated in one of the other threads I expect this will be part of the fall news update we're supposed to be getting.

Not every project that's described as being "in development" actually gets made.

[Gaith]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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I'm glad I wasn't just thinking wishful about Bucky then. I liked the character and no way do I want him to be gone for good.

I know they've been talking about resurrecting him, but I honestly don't see how they do that without completely jumping the shark. He fell a huge distance as a regular human, he's dead, period, splat all over a bunch of ice and rocks. I know this is a comic-book universe, but there's still got to be some sense of proportion. We even accept that Stark and other suit-wearers can survive massive impacts through the magic of the tech, but Bucky had literally nothing, unless they somehow retcon him as having snuck a serum dose himself or something equally weird.

[Temis the Vorta]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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I can see them introducing Namor as the anti-hero he's always been. He is currently an X-Men right now

Namor is an X-Man? That's just...wrong. Is he really the team-player type?

I know they've been talking about resurrecting him, but I honestly don't see how they do that without completely jumping the shark. He fell a huge distance as a regular human,he's dead, period, splat all over a bunch of ice and rocks.

Ah, but Hydra had been experimenting on him. That can be used to hand-wave away just about anything. We don't have to assume he was a regular human when he fell.

Maybe he was injected with anti-grav/telekinesis/flying serum, and that kicked in instinctively at the last minute to cushion his fall. Maybe it was insta-Hulk serum. Or maybe he fell into a snowdrift?

[Admiral_Young]

@Skywalker, I'm well aware of that and "Sub-Mariner" has been in development for years but since we saw Atlantis on Shield's situation board at the end of "Iron Man 2" fans have been speculating that Marvel Studios is going to be seriously developing a Namor film to join their universe. Not saying that it will happen either, just that I think it will happen which of course means nothing since it is just my opinion

@Temis...one would think that but it's made for some interesting dynamic. He has an alliance with Utopia right now and is part of Scott Summer's "inner circle" of advisers and is pretty much awesome when he's not yelling "Imperious Rex!!!!" half the time or hitting on Emma. Kitty insults him all the time

[DarthPipes]

I definitely would have liked to have seen Cap fighting alongside Namor and The Human Torch against real Nazis.

I did like the re-invention of Bucky here though. It was a lot more logical than him being an underaged teen.

[captcalhoun]

Bucky fell into the river. you shuold've seen the splash. there was definitely a splash.

[davejames]

Hmm. I finally got to see this again, and while I was hoping my issues with the dull music score and lifeless action would disappear, it turns out they felt even MORE pronounced.

I realize I seem to be the only one having a problem with this, but the generic score REALLY hurts the movie for me. The action just lies there and never really takes off and becomes truly thrilling and exciting like I want it to.

Which is a shame, because the story and Evan's performance seem so strong otherwise.

[Temis the Vorta]

captcalhoun wrote:

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Bucky fell into the river. you shuold've seen the splash. there was definitely a splash.

My eyes ain't that good.

The action just lies there and never really takes off and becomes truly thrilling and exciting like I want it to.

I found my attention wandering a bit during the action scenes, but I attributed that to the fact that Cap's arc had already been completed, when he went from 99 lb weakling to USO clown to finally achieving what he wanted to, when he rescued the Howling Commandos et al.

After that, the movie was all about satisfying conventions of an action movie by showing more action leading to the defeat of the villain du jour, so it was bound to be pretty pointless up till Cap's final act of sacrifice when he crashed the Hydra plane into an iceberg. Any action scenes, good, bad or indifferent, would have been superfluous to the theme, between the original rescue and the crash (Bucky's rescue and "death" being a plot point set up for a future movie but not an extension of the theme.)

And that's why they can't do another WWII era movie. As it was, the movie had to contain a fair bit of padding that was irrelevant to Cap's arc. Another WWII movie would be 100% padding. But transport him to the 21st C, where he is once again the underdog, because initially he won't understand this new world and how he fits in, and the arc continues from where it left off.

Up to this point, Cap was a hero but also an obedient follower. He has no need to question the war, why they're fighting, or really to think for himself. So the next step in his evolution is to truly become a leader, adapt to his new time, and realize that being a man out of time doesn't put him at a disadvantage to the others. In fact, it gives him a better, wiser perspective.

Cap should come into some conflict with some of the Avengers, maybe not in the first Avengers movie, but in the second anyway, and realize that he needs to stop being the follower and actually step forward as a leader, in a way that has nothing to do with throwing a punch or flinging his shield around. His arc should lead to the realization that he must step up as the Avengers' leader because they need him to.

If Marvel does all that with the Avengers movies, it hardly matters what else they contain or what else the characters do (with the caveat that Iron Man in particular could play a key role in Cap's story as his foil). They will have a great story.

[Gaith]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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Ah, but Hydra had been experimenting on him. That can be used to hand-wave away just about anything. We don't have to assume he was a regular human when he fell.

Ah, I'd forgotten about that. Okay.