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View Poll Results: How do you rate Captain America: The First Avenger?
A+ 34 19.21%
A 51 28.81%
A- 34 19.21%
B+ 27 15.25%
B 15 8.47%
B- 5 2.82%
C+ 5 2.82%
C 4 2.26%
C- 1 0.56%
D+ 0 0%
D 0 0%
D- 0 0%
F 1 0.56%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 4 2011, 05:40 PM   #361
CaptainCanada
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I imagine The Avengers will only cover the basics of him in the present; they won't have much time for more than that. That leaves all the most interesting stuff, ie, trying to figure out what Steve Rogers is going to do long-term in this new world, for the sequel.
Dennis wrote: View Post
That's not who he was.
...
It suggests nothing of the kind; it's simply a function of how many years they've kept him in print. Quantity has little to do with quality. I live really well while almost never eating at McDonalds, but you can't argue with their sales volume.
What famous Captain America stories take place in World War II, again? I can name a whole bunch set in the present, written by such diverse writers as Stan Lee, Jim Steranko, Steve Englehart, Roger Stern and John Byrne, J. M. DeMatteis, Mark Gruenwald, Mark Waid, and Ed Brubaker (and all the people who write The Avengers).

Captain America as published by Marvel Comics is a World War II supersoldier reawakened in the present day. That's how every creator who has worked on him since 1964 has approached the character, and the fact that the movies have taken that approach is not some kind of compromise for the sake of The Avengers. It's how any prospective Captain America franchise would be developed.
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Old August 4 2011, 06:16 PM   #362
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Captain America as published by Marvel Comics is a World War II supersoldier reawakened in the present day. ... It's how any prospective Captain America franchise would be developed.
Agreed. That's how Stan Lee re-imagined the character in the 60's.

Basically, what tends to define the characters that Kirby and Lee created during that era is an increased focus on the individual in the suit and his more or less mundane problems and experiences, with Spider-man being the best example.

With Cap, the concept was that he was the "man out of time," an ideal person in many ways, but whose problem is that he left the world he knows best behind him.
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Old August 4 2011, 07:52 PM   #363
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

This movie went so far above and beyond what was strictly necessary to tell the "man out of time" origin, that I too identify him as belonging in the WWII era.

However, movies about him in the modern age may not necessarily be bad. I've already indicated upthread one thing I liked about the ending, which is that I felt Steve's loss. Depicting a world so entertaining to experience, in which the characters were pretty vivid, and then losing it hurts. As far as I'm concerned his character in the modern age must be defined relative to that hurt and loss, or it just won't work for me. If he's reduced to just a hero in tights, that will be one helluva disappointment. I guess there's a realistic concern that going down from here is all to easy.

At least one more WWII Cap movie, please.
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Old August 4 2011, 09:07 PM   #364
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
This movie went so far above and beyond what was strictly necessary to tell the "man out of time" origin, that I too identify him as belonging in the WWII era.
I don't think that's true. For the record, I had previously thought a split-film would be a good idea, but in retrospect I agree with Kevin Feige that the subject really needed its own film before bringing him to the modern era. You have to establish what he lost for it to have any impact.
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Old August 4 2011, 10:31 PM   #365
Nerys Myk
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

The man out of time thing was never a major factor. Yes he missed Bucky and felt bad because he died on Cap's watch. Most attempts to play up the man out of time angle came off as forced. If Cap is anything its adaptable. In combat and modern society.
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Old August 4 2011, 10:39 PM   #366
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The man out of time thing was never a major factor. Yes he missed Bucky and felt bad because he died on Cap's watch. Most attempts to play up the man out of time angle came off as forced. If Cap is anything its adaptable. In combat and modern society.
Well after a while, he obviously becomes acclimated to the new era. If you read his comics today, you wouldn't know he's from the 1940s. But his process of doing so is too interesting not to explore.
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Old August 4 2011, 10:48 PM   #367
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I don't think they can do a Cap no more story until they have established Cap as an icon in the modern era. I think it's a better story for Cap 3. A flashback story would be cool but I'd really like to see Falcon introduced too. Wasn't the Cosmic Cube used to alter him from a hoodlum to a potential Cap ally as a sort of trap? The Bloodstone Hunt was a fun story too, albeit one channelling Indiana Jones rather a lot with Diamondback as a very credible Marion to Cap's Indy. The Hellfire Helix was a bit too Cosmic Cubey though so the plot would need tweaking. They can forget the Animus but I'd love to see the Vamp channelling Trinity from the Matrix working alonside Crossbones as one of the Skull's enforcers. She has a cool belt that lets her generate a telepathic template of her opponent so that she can give herself a psychic adrenaline boost to her strength and subconsciously use her opponent's skills against them.
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Old August 4 2011, 10:58 PM   #368
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Assuming he's not in The Avengers (which seems to be the case, from what we know), I imagine Captain America 2's villain will be a returned Red Skull, not somebody new.

Winter Soldier is likewise a pretty strong possibility for being involved, since all the production crew tend to cite Brubaker's run as the primary comics inspiration.
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Old August 4 2011, 11:30 PM   #369
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Beyond Antares wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The man out of time thing was never a major factor. Yes he missed Bucky and felt bad because he died on Cap's watch. Most attempts to play up the man out of time angle came off as forced. If Cap is anything its adaptable. In combat and modern society.
Well after a while, he obviously becomes acclimated to the new era. If you read his comics today, you wouldn't know he's from the 1940s. But his process of doing so is too interesting not to explore.
I've been reading his comics since 1969. It's only in recent years they've played it up, usually as a way to provide "character bits". In his earliest post revivial adventures the only time he dwelled on the past was when he was thinking about Bucky or Peggy,
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Old August 5 2011, 12:30 AM   #370
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Yeah, the early comics were generally much simpler.
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Old August 5 2011, 01:14 AM   #371
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Sci wrote: View Post
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I went to see Captain America with my best friend, who is Jewish. She said that she went in intending to root for the character who killed the most Nazis... and found herself rooting for Red Skull. She was disappointed by that.
Seeing how all HYDRA soldiers are renegade Nazis, surely she could've made some concession?
She refused to concede that, insisting that the fact that HYDRA was an off-shoot made them a distinct organization from the Nazis.
Martin McDonagh's play "The Lieutenant of Inishmore" has some funny lines about what constitutes a splinter group. The main character is in a off-shoot organization of the IRA (because he was too violent for them) called the INLA. The other members of the INLA want to kill him because he is planning on forming another off-shoot from their splinter group... He eventually decides to form a group called "Wee Thomas' Army" to fight for the rights of cats...
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Old August 5 2011, 01:17 AM   #372
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
This movie went so far above and beyond what was strictly necessary to tell the "man out of time" origin, that I too identify him as belonging in the WWII era.

However, movies about him in the modern age may not necessarily be bad.
No, but this one was so good - and then they screw the pooch with the ending.

At least one more WWII Cap movie, please.
Yep...I'm sure not waiting with bated breath for Captain America: 2013 or whatever the fuck...
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Old August 5 2011, 02:20 AM   #373
Nerys Myk
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Yeah, the early comics were generally much simpler.
More action packed as well. Of course with Cap sharing Tales of Suspense with Iron Man they had to get down to business pretty quick. Still they had time to intro Peggy and develop Cap's relationship with her. Then toss in the curve ball of Sharon Carter.
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Old August 5 2011, 10:39 AM   #374
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

We already have so many super heoros set in todays world it made a nice change of pace to see something different and should have been utilised more.They could have done a man out of time story later.
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Old August 5 2011, 10:51 AM   #375
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I don't think the franchise is done with depicting World War II. While I don't think it will be the primary setting I would be shocked if we didn't get flashback sequences as Steve struggles to deal with finding his place in the modern era. I also don't think there is going to be enough plot time in "Avengers" for Joss to deal with this as a main character arc. It will be touched upon and addressed (probably like the first Ultimates arc did) but there will be too much else going on to make it a facet of the move). I think the plot of Cap 2 will deal with this more.

If they do Winter Solider as has been suggested we could get flashback sequences as James recalls his transformation, etc.
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