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View Poll Results: How do you rate Captain America: The First Avenger?
A+ 34 19.21%
A 51 28.81%
A- 34 19.21%
B+ 27 15.25%
B 15 8.47%
B- 5 2.82%
C+ 5 2.82%
C 4 2.26%
C- 1 0.56%
D+ 0 0%
D 0 0%
D- 0 0%
F 1 0.56%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 30 2011, 06:25 PM   #256
Dac
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

davejames wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
Hell no, Thor wins for being a complete movie with a story that went from A to B. Captain America just started and then shit happened with no resolution at all. The big finale was all of 5 minutes long with maybe only 10 punches being pulled. Bucky's death was unexpected, but incredibly shallow and not hard hitting in the slightest. Hell, Thor made a conscious effort to reconcile alien humans who live forever on a city in the clouds with "our" world, and did a damned good job at it. Captain America had an alt history world war 2 with giant futuristic Skyscrapers in New York, Hover cars and lasers without so much as a wink to the audience.
So the way the movie constantly shifts back and forth between serious and Shakespearean to lighthearted and campy didn't strike anybody else as... odd?

Hmm, ok. Guess it was just me then.
Nope. I'm a firm believer that a great film should balance both, and considering the situation (a Norse god winds up in backwater America) the humor was very natural and played correctly if you ask me. That's another disconnect in Captain America, the alt-history as opposed to "reality" added an extra barrier between identifying with anyone. Also, Steve didn't follow a traditional protagonist arc. He was never happy with how he was, so there was no sudden disruption, he overcame the problem though no action of his own and ultimately did not learn any lessons because he was already a good guy, all the actions he took that went against the Generals wishes all ultimately ended up being the right thing to do, and in the end all he did was punch the bad guy into a device which killed/teleported him and just crashed a plane. Heroic, sure, but he didn't have an arc where he evolved as a character who learned new things.
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Old July 30 2011, 07:07 PM   #257
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Dac wrote: View Post
That's another disconnect in Captain America, the alt-history as opposed to "reality" added an extra barrier between identifying with anyone.
How was that a barrier? I take the world the movie presents on its own terms, and this is very familiar territory for pulp stories.
Also, Steve didn't follow a traditional protagonist arc. He was never happy with how he was, so there was no sudden disruption, he overcame the problem though no action of his own and ultimately did not learn any lessons because he was already a good guy, all the actions he took that went against the Generals wishes all ultimately ended up being the right thing to do, and in the end all he did was punch the bad guy into a device which killed/teleported him and just crashed a plane. Heroic, sure, but he didn't have an arc where he evolved as a character who learned new things.
Steve's arc is demonstrating to people that he has what it takes to be a hero. He's a straightforward character in the war years.
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Old July 30 2011, 08:42 PM   #258
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Dac wrote: View Post
That's another disconnect in Captain America, the alt-history as opposed to "reality" added an extra barrier between identifying with anyone.
What alt-history would that be? It really didnt touch on any historical events other than the rather broad canvas of WWII. It was probably closer to reality than the latter half of Inglorious Basterds
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Old July 30 2011, 08:53 PM   #259
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Dac wrote: View Post
I wanted to like this film, but considering it just ended with no closure on either the 40's plotline or even the modern day one, it was just incredibly weird to watch.
How was there not closure on the 40s plotline? The villain was defeated (albeit we know temporarily, because the Skull has to return in the present day, so he can't die), and Steve "died".

There wasn't a plot in the present day at all; he wakes up, and the film ends on something of a cliffhanger.

Ok, so the 40s plot had a resolution then, but it just left me cold. Like the rest of the film, there was no emotion at all!
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Old July 30 2011, 08:57 PM   #260
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
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I liked it. I would rank it second in the current wave of comic movies to X-Men First Class. My major nitpick wasn't having Captain Rogers and his Howling Commandos fighting Hydra instead of the SS but it was almost totally ignoring America's racial segregation.

So instead of Steve Rogers being more heroic in ignoring skin color and American norms when recruiting his team or on war bond tours we had happy smiling integrated audiences, civilian and GIs in Italy just ignoring that fact of history. The only reference we got was Dum Dum Dugan being surprised that Jim Morita was a fellow POW, but given the rest of the actions Morita could have been from any unit and not the segregated 442 RCT and Gabe Jones could have studied at Harvard instead of Howard.
I thought the omission of the racial segregation of the US Armed Forces in the movie was odd as well. I just went with the idea that this special unit of the Armed Forces was integrated, though it still is a little tough to believe they would ever contemplate a non-white soldier receiving the super-soldier serum and being frontline soldiers, unless it was done like in the Truth miniseries, to use minorities as guinea pigs to work out the kinks before the white soldiers got it. In attention to Truth, I liked how the comic Flags of Our Fathers, a Black Panther-Captain America WW2 team-up, handled the issue. It showed Cap as forward thinking and not tolerant of the conventional racial wisdom of that day.

As the movie progressed and became even more fantastical, with all this futuristic Hydra weapons, etc., I just decided to roll with it. Captain America was a very fantasy take on WW2. Did it do a disservice to the character and the war itself? I guess that's a matter of opinion.

It's funny but the way ENT dealt with Nazis came off as more realistic than in Captain America, and they had space Nazis.
While an interesting topic, its not really one that this particular movie was designed to discuss. Heck, I dont even think the Sgt Fury and his Howling Commando book ( where Gabe Jones first appeared) discussed how a black man could be in a elite commando unit in a segregated US Army.

This is after all Captain America not Band of Brothers or Tuskegee Airmen. Its supposed to be fantastical and futuristic not a realistic warts and all examination of the US Army in WWII.
I am a rare cat being from a neighborhood where everybody was Black or their parents were interned during the war. And even more rare that both apply to me.

I accept the Strategic Scientific Reserve as an intergrated offshoot of the OSS more then I do the Stormtroopers be willing to die for science and Hydra more then the SS and the motherland. I just think the show would have been stronger if there was a White/Colored rope line at a War Bonds Tour stop or the Blacks were put in the back row of the USO show. And Captain Rogers/America choosing His team would have had more impact
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Old July 30 2011, 09:13 PM   #261
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post

I thought the omission of the racial segregation of the US Armed Forces in the movie was odd as well. I just went with the idea that this special unit of the Armed Forces was integrated, though it still is a little tough to believe they would ever contemplate a non-white soldier receiving the super-soldier serum and being frontline soldiers, unless it was done like in the Truth miniseries, to use minorities as guinea pigs to work out the kinks before the white soldiers got it. In attention to Truth, I liked how the comic Flags of Our Fathers, a Black Panther-Captain America WW2 team-up, handled the issue. It showed Cap as forward thinking and not tolerant of the conventional racial wisdom of that day.

As the movie progressed and became even more fantastical, with all this futuristic Hydra weapons, etc., I just decided to roll with it. Captain America was a very fantasy take on WW2. Did it do a disservice to the character and the war itself? I guess that's a matter of opinion.

It's funny but the way ENT dealt with Nazis came off as more realistic than in Captain America, and they had space Nazis.
While an interesting topic, its not really one that this particular movie was designed to discuss. Heck, I dont even think the Sgt Fury and his Howling Commando book ( where Gabe Jones first appeared) discussed how a black man could be in a elite commando unit in a segregated US Army.

This is after all Captain America not Band of Brothers or Tuskegee Airmen. Its supposed to be fantastical and futuristic not a realistic warts and all examination of the US Army in WWII.
I am a rare cat being from a neighborhood where everybody was Black or their parents were interned during the war. And even more rare that both apply to me.

I accept the Strategic Scientific Reserve as an intergrated offshoot of the OSS more then I do the Stormtroopers be willing to die for science and Hydra more then the SS and the motherland. I just think the show would have been stronger if there was a White/Colored rope line at a War Bonds Tour stop or the Blacks were put in the back row of the USO show. And Captain Rogers/America choosing His team would have had more impact
That's obviously a personal issue for you. Yeah, I have to admit seeing an integrated movie theatre took me out of the film for a second, but then I remembered it wasn't a film about racism or civil rights. Nor was it a historical documentary. It was a action adventure film based on a comic book. It would be like expecting commentary on Western Imperialism in North Africa or Japanese expansionist policies in Asia in an Indiana Jones film. Sure those things were happening at the times and places of Indy's adventures but are they needed in those films?
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Old July 30 2011, 09:21 PM   #262
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I know that Captain America was not designed to discuss racial segregation in the US Armed Forces in WW2. But an acknowledgement of it, and the hypocritical fight against Nazi racism while practicing homegrown racism wouldn't have been a bad thing nor would it have derailed the film. It could've been about Cap fighting against bullies no matter their uniforms and showing that we were all in it together against the Nazis.

Because the film went almost totally into the realm of fantasy with Hydra, it didn't bother me much, and we did get just a smidgen with Dugan and Morita. But why it is that some folks feel that any mention of racism equates to it having to be a full accounting or an exhaustive exploration of racism? Like the very mention of it is too much for some folks to handle. I heard this reasoning with X-Men: First Class, and now I'm seeing shades of that with Captain America.

Whether with Captain America or other films, I'm not a fan of sweeping history under the rug, and when it comes to the history of non-whites in this country, I think there is a tendency on the part of some folks to minimize it, ignore it, or remain blissfully ignorant of it all together, and then get mad or indignant if you bring it up. I'm not referring to anyone in this thread from what I've seen per se...yet, but that it is more of a general statement.
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Old July 30 2011, 10:44 PM   #263
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

For me its a topic that deserves more than a quick nod. It would be a disservice to the topic ( and those that suffered) to treat it in that manner. The Captain America character has faced this topic in comics over the years, but it was given the room is deserves and not just a quick scene or line.
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Old July 30 2011, 11:44 PM   #264
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

I'm sorry, but I really don't think CA was really trying to be any kind of an accurate representation of the times, and if you expected it to be then you were very mistaken. All this wanted to be was a fun, comic book movie and that is all it was. I actually didn't even notice any of the stuff you guys are talking about, but then again when I go to a movie like CA I don't analyze every single frame as it appears, I pretty much just turn my brain off and enjoy the movie for what it is.
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Old July 31 2011, 01:28 AM   #265
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

JD wrote: View Post
I'm sorry, but I really don't think CA was really trying to be any kind of an accurate representation of the times, and if you expected it to be then you were very mistaken. All this wanted to be was a fun, comic book movie and that is all it was. I actually didn't even notice any of the stuff you guys are talking about, but then again when I go to a movie like CA I don't analyze every single frame as it appears, I pretty much just turn my brain off and enjoy the movie for what it is.
I guess we can skip over to Cowboys and Aliens. But we have invested 265 post and we are a week past opening day. Analyzing ever single frame of TV and movies is what we do.
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Old July 31 2011, 07:34 AM   #266
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

did anyone else think Schmitt's line about "digging in the desert" was a joke about Raiders?

and who else loved Steve's pulling down the flagpole and casually handing the flag to the drill sergeant before climbing in the jeep whilst everyone else stared at him?
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Old July 31 2011, 07:51 AM   #267
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
who else loved Steve's pulling down the flagpole and casually handing the flag to the drill sergeant before climbing in the jeep whilst everyone else stared at him?
That was good. I saw that scene as a one-up on the similar scene in Disney's Mulan.
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Old July 31 2011, 11:28 AM   #268
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
did anyone else think Schmitt's line about "digging in the desert" was a joke about Raiders?
It obviously was, given that Johnston was the art director on that film.

Personally, I loved the old school 'A Matter Of Life And Death' shout out with Peggy talking to Cap over the radio
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Old July 31 2011, 01:26 PM   #269
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

Yminale wrote: View Post
You need Captain America in your first "Avengers" film no matter what publication history and continuity dictate in 616.
No ones has given me a good reason outside of "we want to see him there".
That is a good reason. In fact, I'd say it's the best.
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Old July 31 2011, 06:50 PM   #270
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Re: Captain America: The First Avenger-Review, Discuss, Grade, Sequel,

The estimates for Cap's second weekend have him in 3rd place with about $24.9m. That is a 61% drop if estimates hold and a bit worse than you'd like to see.

Still, the US domestic total is now $116.7m in 10 days, more than Green Lantern after 7 weeks. The worldwide is up to $170.2m and will hit more international markets this week.
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