RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,754
Posts: 5,216,144
Members: 24,215
Currently online: 870
Newest member: SF Junkie

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 24 2011, 03:08 PM   #1
Admiral Buzzkill
The Legend
 
What's it like to flop?

Because, you know, none of us ever having had that experience I'm sure we all wonder.

Any film production, like a long grueling campaign over months and years, is filled with crisis, compromise, exhaustion, conflict, elation, and blind faith that if one just works harder, the results will turn out all right in the end. During that process whatever anger, frustration, or disagreement you have with the candidate/film you keep to yourself. Privately you may oppose various decisions, strategies, or compromises; you may learn things about the candidate that cloud your resolve and shake your confidence, but you soldier on, committed to the end. You rationalize it along the way by imagining that the struggle will be worth it when the candidate wins.
.
.
.
You tell yourself to just enjoy the process. That whether you succeed or fail, win or lose, it will be fine. You pretend to be Zen. You adopt detachment, and ironic humor, while secretly praying for a miracle.
Worth a read.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 03:12 PM   #2
Robert Maxwell
Respect the Beef
 
Robert Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Right behind you!
View Robert Maxwell's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Robert Maxwell Send a message via AIM to Robert Maxwell Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Robert Maxwell Send a message via Yahoo to Robert Maxwell
Re: What's it like to flop?

I didn't even realize Conan came out already. And it opened fourth, losing out to two films that have been out a few weeks and a Spy Kids sequel? Jesus. I feel really bad for them.
__________________
"Holy shit! It's Beef Supreme!"
The Journeyman - Buy it now! Maybe?
My world simulation project!
My blog
Robert Maxwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 03:13 PM   #3
Admiral Buzzkill
The Legend
 
Re: What's it like to flop?

Someone once said that no one (make that "relatively few" IMAO) makes bad movies because they want to make bad movies but that they don't know how to do better.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 03:18 PM   #4
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: What's it like to flop?

I would think no one, even Ed Wood, intends a flop. With so many people part of making a film, things can start going wrong long before anyone recognizes trouble, and once problems are recognized, production has gone on to the point that it is almost impossible to change shy of just remaking the movie from scratch. Pockets just are not that deep for movie makers and their investors, so like the writer quoted says- hope for a miracle.
__________________
“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Rumi
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 03:38 PM   #5
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: What's it like to flop?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
I would think no one, even Ed Wood, intends a flop.
I dare you to watch After Last Season and then say that.
__________________
Taysiders in Space. In amungst ye!

"Set phasers tae malky!"
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 03:59 PM   #6
Klaus
Rear Admiral
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Location: Beach condo, Bay of Eldamar
View Klaus's Twitter Profile
Re: What's it like to flop?

I'm not surprised at the flop at all. Being R rated gave it little chance of wide success... while it may make some of the fen happy to see more gore, that only draws in the slasher crowd in numbers. DVD sales will be better, I'd imagine.

And I find it hard to believe anyone wants to make a bad movie outside of a The Producers kind of scenario.
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
t-shirts!
deviantArt
Klaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 04:04 PM   #7
Out Of My Vulcan Mind
Vice Admiral
 
Out Of My Vulcan Mind's Avatar
 
Location: Wherever you go, there you are.
Re: What's it like to flop?

Klaus wrote: View Post
I'm not surprised at the flop at all. Being R rated gave it little chance of wide success... while it may make some of the fen happy to see more gore, that only draws in the slasher crowd in numbers.
Conan the Barbarian (1982), Gladiator and 300 were all rated R and were all hits.
__________________
"I'll see you in another life, brother."
Out Of My Vulcan Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 04:14 PM   #8
SchwEnt
Fleet Captain
 
Re: What's it like to flop?

I watch movies on DVD that flopped because I wanted to see them anyway. I often watch the BTS stuff regarding the making of the movie.

I'm amazed by the work and effort of the set decorators, the costumers, wardrobe, FX people, art designers.

Stuff that you wouldn't notice way in the background, but considerable effort is made to research it for historical accuracy, work is handmade for authenticity, only vintage materials are used (at quite an expense) and so on.

Tremendous efforts, and hardly noticeable unless you are an expert viewer or watch the making-of.

...and then the movie flops, and it's all for nothing.
That's gotta suck so hard.

If the director is nuts, or the actors are weak, or the writers are idiots, that's understandable, they got what's coming to them.

But the production people who go all out, really outdo themselves, and then the movie flops anyway. What a kick in the nuts.

I think, a movie rarely hits or misses if the villagers are wearing authentic and accurate clothing fabrics.
But that doesn't stop the costumers from doing exhaustive historical research and massive searching for genuine materials. And all for nothing when the movie flops. Damn.
SchwEnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 05:06 PM   #9
JoeZhang
Vice Admiral
 
JoeZhang's Avatar
 
Re: What's it like to flop?

Dennis wrote: View Post
Because, you know, none of us ever having had that experience I'm sure we all wonder.
Let me tell you about the time I flopped -

I was young and naive, she had been a deckhand on a Russian fishing boat. I first caught sight of her when I was skinning a.... [Cont'd Pg 94]
JoeZhang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 05:27 PM   #10
Admiral Buzzkill
The Legend
 
Re: What's it like to flop?

Eh, most guys just leave her hanging there.

Anyway...some of my favorite movies have been box office bombs. Serenity for example. I sure don't waste energy trying to persuade people that it failed for irrelevant or invalid reasons. The audience is always right...but what they're right about is that they do want to see a given movie or they don't.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 08:03 PM   #11
EyalM
Captain
 
Location: Haifa
Re: What's it like to flop?

Dennis wrote: View Post
The audience is always right[/B]...but what they're right about is that they do want to see a given movie or they don't.
Well, sometimes the audience is uninformed (if the movie isn't promoted enough) or misinformed (if the trailers are misleading or just plain bad). That would explain how some movies a box office flops but hits on DVD.
__________________
Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog.
Actually, replace ’accidentally’ with ’repeatedly’ and replace ’dog’ with ’son.’
EyalM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 08:25 PM   #12
Admiral Buzzkill
The Legend
 
Re: What's it like to flop?

That's not necessary in order to explain the difference between theatrical failure and DVD success. Those are two different markets, with two different product life cycles and the competitive pressures are very different. Not everyone who's willing to buy a movie on DVD just didn't know about it when it was released or has "learned better" from a negative first impression.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 09:11 PM   #13
Agenda
Fleet Captain
 
Re: What's it like to flop?

I think most scripts fail in the story and script stage. It's the backbone of almost any film. The problem is, that's art. And art is subjective. And just because people don't go to see it, doesn't mean it's not 'good'. Whatever 'good' means. I'm not saying Conan's was.

And if you have a unappealing story and script, you'd better have giant, transforming 3D robots to make up for it. Conan sure as hell didn't have anything on that level.
Agenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 10:09 PM   #14
Robert Maxwell
Respect the Beef
 
Robert Maxwell's Avatar
 
Location: Right behind you!
View Robert Maxwell's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Robert Maxwell Send a message via AIM to Robert Maxwell Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Robert Maxwell Send a message via Yahoo to Robert Maxwell
Re: What's it like to flop?

Beyond Antares wrote: View Post
I think most scripts fail in the story and script stage. It's the backbone of almost any film. The problem is, that's art. And art is subjective. And just because people don't go to see it, doesn't mean it's not 'good'. Whatever 'good' means. I'm not saying Conan's was.

And if you have a unappealing story and script, you'd better have giant, transforming 3D robots to make up for it. Conan sure as hell didn't have anything on that level.
Considering how often I hear of excellent scripts being butchered in the final product, I don't think you can make that claim. Even in the article Dennis linked, the screenwriter said most of his best material didn't make it into the final movie.

Everyone involved with the film bears some responsibility for the final product. A good script doesn't mean a good movie, though a bad script will usually guarantee a bad movie. And then there are cases like you say, where the script doesn't even matter. So I think you contradicted yourself a bit.
__________________
"Holy shit! It's Beef Supreme!"
The Journeyman - Buy it now! Maybe?
My world simulation project!
My blog
Robert Maxwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 24 2011, 10:21 PM   #15
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: What's it like to flop?

I feel more bad for Jason Momoa in all this, compared with the screenwriters. By all accounts, he's the best part of the movie, but it would be true to Hollywood form for the newcomer actor to get a disproportionate share of the blame.

The writer has even more to say...
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.