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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old July 19 2011, 02:38 PM   #1
Thomas.B
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rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

I haven't seen these shows in years.
Here are my impressions of what I've seen.
Is this the show that people were complaining about back in the 90s? Saying it was a sign of the franchise in decline? What were they watching? Every episode has had more character moments, drama, action....what seems obvious upon viewing this show next to the other Star Trek series is that Voyager is the show that is consistently GOOD!
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So far, the Voyager episodes I've watched include "Caretaker," "Paralax," "Time and Again," "Eye of the Needle," "Ex Post Facto," "Emanations," "State of Flux," "Heroes and Demons," "Faces," "Projections," and "Meld."
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Favorite moments so far: The doctor basically telling Tuvok that the Vulcan way of life (repressing emotions) is abnormal ("Melds"). Tuvok playing detective in "Melds" and "Ex Post Facto" (and nearly losing his mind in "Melds.") Torres' Klingon and human halves being divided into two separate people ("Faces" Also featured an alien who grafted another Voyager crew member's face over his own). The doctor being told he's the real human and the Voyager crew are the holograms by Lt. Barclay ("Projections"). Janeway in her pajamas pleading with a Romulan to relay messages from Voyager to the Federation ("Eye of the Needle"). The doctor playing the hero of Beowulf and being propositioned by a female warrior who tells him "you know where I sleep" ("Heroes and Demons").
As far as I'm concerned, there's just no comparison. Voyager took some of the more clever situations from Next Generation and Deep Space Nine and put REAL characters into them.
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Old July 19 2011, 03:18 PM   #2
starlitegirl
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Thomas.B wrote: View Post
I haven't seen these shows in years.
Here are my impressions of what I've seen.
Is this the show that people were complaining about back in the 90s? Saying it was a sign of the franchise in decline? What were they watching? Every episode has had more character moments, drama, action....what seems obvious upon viewing this show next to the other Star Trek series is that Voyager is the show that is consistently GOOD!
Thank you!!! As I rewatch TNG episodes, I can't believe how many are almost unwatchable. Back when it was first airing, I truly loved it, but compared to Voyager, it sucks. Even the Borg don't look as awesome, but I'll blame that on advancements in CGI and costume departments.

Voyager was consistently good, as you say. I don't get why people bash it. It was superior to all the other Treks. All of them. We're not bogged down in the characters' stories. We don't get endless episodes about them. We get a few and then character development occurs in the other episodes that are actually about what happens to them in space, which is what it should be.
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Old July 19 2011, 04:36 PM   #3
Thomas.B
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

starlitegirl wrote: View Post
Thank you!!! As I rewatch TNG episodes, I can't believe how many are almost unwatchable. Back when it was first airing, I truly loved it, but compared to Voyager, it sucks. Even the Borg don't look as awesome, but I'll blame that on advancements in CGI and costume departments.

Voyager was consistently good, as you say. I don't get why people bash it. It was superior to all the other Treks. All of them. We're not bogged down in the characters' stories. We don't get endless episodes about them. We get a few and then character development occurs in the other episodes that are actually about what happens to them in space, which is what it should be.
We are very much in agreement.
TNG wasn't bad for it's era. But Picard seemed to want to lecture everyone into submission and pat his crew on the back for being superior to everyone. And the characters were so restrained. It appeared that Federation officers adopted a philosophy almost as repressed as the Vulcans. The main difference being they could smile and SAY they had emotions, but they had to be platonic (until the last season), and never argue with each other.
TOS, DS9, Ent...I guess they all have clever moments. DS9 wasn't the most interesting setting. Enterprise seemed intent on finding dull plots. And after seeing William Shatner as Denny Crane I haven't wanted to go back to TOS.
...But Voyager. Well, I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's just a better drama overall.
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Old July 19 2011, 04:46 PM   #4
Thomas.B
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

...about the character episodes. I know what you mean. In Voyager we get episodes about lone characters. But they aren't just an interesting detour from the business-as-usual stuff. The Doctor's journey in understanding his crewmates is given much more dramatic attention than Data's seemingly passing interest in being human. The Voyager crew is in a situation where they HAVE to try to understand and work together...and they don't all automatically agree like they did in other Trek shows.
That is really the very essence of drama if you ask me.

Last edited by Thomas.B; July 19 2011 at 05:08 PM. Reason: rephrasing.
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Old July 19 2011, 07:43 PM   #5
starlitegirl
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Thomas.B wrote: View Post
We are very much in agreement.
TNG wasn't bad for it's era. But Picard seemed to want to lecture everyone into submission and pat his crew on the back for being superior to everyone. And the characters were so restrained. It appeared that Federation officers adopted a philosophy almost as repressed as the Vulcans. The main difference being they could smile and SAY they had emotions, but they had to be platonic (until the last season), and never argue with each other.
TOS, DS9, Ent...I guess they all have clever moments. DS9 wasn't the most interesting setting. Enterprise seemed intent on finding dull plots. And after seeing William Shatner as Denny Crane I haven't wanted to go back to TOS.
...But Voyager. Well, I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's just a better drama overall.
I suspect that the reasons you and I love Voy are the reasons others don't like it. I've come across fans who wanted more character stories and episodes. I personally think that Kes and Seven added quite a bit to that area. They were new. We've already learned about the other species in previous incarnations of Trek.

I thought Shatner as Crane was hysterical, but that's my thing. I loved Boston Legal. Yet, it does not make me wish to watch the original series, which I never got into to despite a few tries. Even going back to TNG has left me as less of a fan of it with Voy being the new standard to which I compare all others.

Thomas.B wrote: View Post
...about the character episodes. I know what you mean. In Voyager we get episodes about lone characters. But they aren't just an interesting detour from the business-as-usual stuff. The Doctor's journey in understanding his crewmates is given much more dramatic attention than Data's seemingly passing interest in being human. The Voyager crew is in a situation where they HAVE to try to understand and work together...and they don't all automatically agree like they did in other Trek shows.
That is really the very essence of drama if you ask me.
Agreed! At some point on TNG I was bored to tears with episodes about Worf and Deanna's mother. Data is a bit more intriguing, but even those episodes cannot live up to the Doctor, but perhaps that is because Data really had nowhere to go whereas the Doctor became quite human. The closest we get with Data is the emotion chip, which was amusing and interesting. It helped make First Contact awesome. But that was as good as we got with Data.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:00 PM   #6
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

One thing I dug upon rewatching Caretaker: even if it's your first time watching Voyager, you can totally tell which of Janeway's original crew dies if that crewmember is a jerk to Tom Paris.

Seriously, Stadi, the XO, and the ship's doctor all thumb their noses to Tom, and they're killed. Janeway and Kim take a liking to Paris, and live. Coincidence? Or does the Caretaker have a thing for Tom?
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Old July 19 2011, 08:21 PM   #7
AuntKate
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

I have maintained for years that the people who are critical of Voyager haven't seen it in years, don't remember it well, or have only seen certain problematic episodes. When VOY appeared on the scene, there was a terrible negative attitude toward it by the DS9ers (sorry, it's the truth) who managed to denigrate or shout down those of us who were enthusiastic about VOY. One of the things I like best about VOY is the humor! It deals with serious situations, but it also provides some of Trek's better comic moments.

If it's been years, or if you are foggy about VOY, watch it again, without a chip on your shoulder, and you will be pleasantly surprised. Are there stinker episodes? Of course, but, for the most part, it is a very good drama and a Trek series to be proud of.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:26 PM   #8
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Can we not turn this into yet another DS9/VOY conflict? Not all DS9ers looked down on Voyager when it started; remember, the mid-90s was the height of Trek's popularity, and everyone wanted more.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:40 PM   #9
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Can we not turn this into yet another DS9/VOY conflict? Not all DS9ers looked down on Voyager when it started; remember, the mid-90s was the height of Trek's popularity, and everyone wanted more.
I'm not trying to do that, but just saying that some of the negative attitude toward VOY came from a rivalry between the two series. That fact is impossible to deny and important for people who weren't here back in the day. But, you're right, not all DS9ers looked down on VOY . . . just the very vocal ones.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:42 PM   #10
Thomas.B
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Can we not turn this into yet another DS9/VOY conflict? Not all DS9ers looked down on Voyager when it started; remember, the mid-90s was the height of Trek's popularity, and everyone wanted more.
I do kind of wish Netflix was offering DS9 for immediate download so I could compare it to the other shows. They did do that awesome Tribble time travel episode.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:49 PM   #11
AuntKate
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Thomas.B wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Can we not turn this into yet another DS9/VOY conflict? Not all DS9ers looked down on Voyager when it started; remember, the mid-90s was the height of Trek's popularity, and everyone wanted more.
I do kind of wish Netflix was offering DS9 for immediate download so I could compare it to the other shows. They did do that awesome Tribble time travel episode.
What are they offering right now? VOY and TNG?
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Old July 19 2011, 08:51 PM   #12
Thomas.B
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

AuntKate wrote: View Post
... But, you're right, not all DS9ers looked down on VOY . . . just the very vocal ones.
And for a show about cooperation between species, Trek fans sure do resort to a lot of infighting. First it was Kirk vs. Picard, then DS9 was picked apart. And as the ratings for each successive show dipped it only got worse.
That said, this IS the Voyager board and this is the place for me to say: Voyager is BEST!!! (imo)
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Old July 19 2011, 08:53 PM   #13
AuntKate
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

^^ I guess it is a good thing that fans of the show can be passionate about what they like best. I just think there is room for all the fans and all the series without having to resort to infighting.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:54 PM   #14
Thomas.B
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

AuntKate wrote: View Post
What are they offering right now? VOY and TNG?
They have TOS, TNG, VOY, and ENT.
So everything BUT DS9.
A person could order the discs by mail I suppose. But it seems a little sad to leave DS9 out of the party.
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Old July 19 2011, 08:57 PM   #15
Cyke101
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Re: rewatching Voyager on Netflix (it's been years).

Thomas.B wrote: View Post
AuntKate wrote: View Post
What are they offering right now? VOY and TNG?
They have TOS, TNG, VOY, and ENT.
So everything BUT DS9.
A person could order the discs by mail I suppose. But it seems a little sad to leave DS9 out of the party.
DS9 is coming in October. We just need that and Star Trek: TAS and the dynasty will be complete
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