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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old August 27 2011, 12:28 AM   #46
Xander
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

David Mack wrote: View Post
Xander wrote: View Post
i think part of the problem is that same-sex relationships are not that numerous in trek lit (certainly there are no prominent main characters that are gay), so when a writer kills of a gay character it tends to stand out more (at least for us gay guys).
You must not have read the Star Trek Vanguard series — one of its most important characters is T'Prynn, who is a lesbian. And as another poster just mentioned, there was Bart Faulwell in the Star Trek: Corps of Engineers series; he was a prominent member of the ensemble cast. Both these characters were depicted as having active same-sex romantic relationships. Neither has been killed in their respective series.
true though in the case of the S.C.E they actually killed of the book series itself, and in Vanguard T'Prynn is depicted as kind of a crazy nutjob
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Old August 27 2011, 12:35 AM   #47
Xander
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

lets also not forget that during S.C.E book creative couplings anthony mark bart's boyfriend who is SUPPOSED to be gay actually kissed DR lense.

and in another of the books Bart who again is SUPPOSED to be gay developed feeling for a WOMAN!.

then on top of that they broke them up altogether.
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Old August 27 2011, 12:57 AM   #48
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

^Lots of people of one orientation sometimes experiment with the other. Sexual behavior is to sexual orientation as weather is to climate. The former is a short-term thing that can vary from one instance to the next, while the latter is the overall prevailing trend.
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Old August 27 2011, 12:58 AM   #49
Idran
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Xander wrote: View Post
and in another of the books Bart who again is SUPPOSED to be gay developed feeling for a WOMAN!.
That happens in real life too. Sexuality isn't a strict binary, straight men can get feelings for men and gay men can get feelings for women.
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Old August 27 2011, 01:17 AM   #50
Xander
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

actually i don't think that is the case, if a man is 100% gay (like myself) then females are a COMPLETE turnoff i mean they are nice and all but not in the LEAST attractive in that way.

so if either bart or anthony where 100% gay there minds would not even be able to go there (again like myself and many other gay people i know)
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Old August 27 2011, 01:26 AM   #51
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

^Key word, "if." Not everyone considers themselves to be "100%" one orientation or the other. Sexuality is a continuum, as Kinsey showed generations ago. Just because you're "100%" doesn't mean Bart or Anthony has to be.
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Old August 27 2011, 01:41 AM   #52
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Exactly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

You're a 6, Xander, but Bart could be a 5 or so. And plenty of 5's still identify as homosexual; they're attracted to men except for one specific woman, perhaps.

Bah, there's a perfect autobiographical online comic about just this topic, but I can't remember the title or URL. About a woman that self-identifies as lesbian, but ended up marrying a man, literally the only man she was ever attracted to and in love with in her life. Not presented as a turning or anything either, she still is otherwise only attracted to women outside the relationship.

Edit: DAR!, that was it. http://www.darcomic.com/
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Old August 27 2011, 01:43 AM   #53
Xander
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

i agree Christopher, just seems a bit of a cop out to me "hey here are two gay characters....oh wait we changed our minds no there not they are bi"
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Old August 27 2011, 01:46 AM   #54
Idran
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Xander wrote: View Post
i agree Christopher, just seems a bit of a cop out to me "hey here are two gay characters....oh wait we changed our minds no there not they are bi"
They're not bi if they self-identify as homosexual. Bisexual usually means nearly equally attracted to men and women, which Bart wasn't. That was literally the only woman he ever found himself attracted to, that doesn't make him bisexual.
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Old August 27 2011, 01:56 AM   #55
Xander
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Idran wrote: View Post
Xander wrote: View Post
i agree Christopher, just seems a bit of a cop out to me "hey here are two gay characters....oh wait we changed our minds no there not they are bi"
They're not bi if they self-identify as homosexual. Bisexual usually means nearly equally attracted to men and women, which Bart wasn't. That was literally the only woman he ever found himself attracted to, that doesn't make him bisexual.
true but it dosen't make him 100% gay either (again from my own experience and others i know as well) so where dose that leave us?.
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Old August 27 2011, 01:59 AM   #56
Idran
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Xander wrote: View Post
Idran wrote: View Post
Xander wrote: View Post
i agree Christopher, just seems a bit of a cop out to me "hey here are two gay characters....oh wait we changed our minds no there not they are bi"
They're not bi if they self-identify as homosexual. Bisexual usually means nearly equally attracted to men and women, which Bart wasn't. That was literally the only woman he ever found himself attracted to, that doesn't make him bisexual.
true but it dosen't make him 100% gay either (again from my own experience and others i know as well) so where dose that leave us?.
Basically, whatever the individual self-identifies as, go with that. Or in the case of a fictional character, whatever their creator or author identifies them as, go with that. Same as with any aspect of sexuality, really. And in Bart's case, that's probably "gay with one exception".
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Old August 27 2011, 02:07 AM   #57
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Xander wrote: View Post
true but it dosen't make him 100% gay either (again from my own experience and others i know as well) so where dose that leave us?.
It leaves us making a fuss over an irrelevancy. This is Star Trek, where people are accepted for who they are as individuals and not judged because they don't conform to some arbitrary standard of purity. If you insist on sticking absolute labels on everyone, then you've missed the point of the entire franchise.

I think you need to take a look at this thread:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...highlight=lgbt

It should demonstrate that the entire gamut of human (and humanoid) sexuality is well-represented in Trek literature.
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Old August 27 2011, 02:10 AM   #58
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Xander wrote: View Post
in Vanguard T'Prynn is depicted as kind of a crazy nutjob
Her psychological instability in the early volumes of the series is not actually a product or consequence of her sexuality; in fact, as she herself describes in a moment of interior monologue in Reap the Whirlwind, her romantic relationship with
is "the only honest thing in her life". Her sexuality and the relationship she undertakes because of it within the story are presented as positive aspects of her admittedly flawed psychology.

Besides which, she is no more of a nutjob than half the other characters in the series, straight or otherwise. And she remains a major member of the regular cast after
.

Just sayin'.
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Old August 27 2011, 02:20 AM   #59
Idran
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Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Christopher wrote: View Post
It leaves us making a fuss over an irrelevancy. This is Star Trek, where people are accepted for who they are as individuals and not judged because they don't conform to some arbitrary standard of purity. If you insist on sticking absolute labels on everyone, then you've missed the point of the entire franchise.
To be fair, Christopher, I think by this point Xander is less objecting to what happened to Bart and more just honestly curious about this sort of situation through his example, since it's a new situation to him.
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Old August 27 2011, 02:32 AM   #60
Xander
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Location: Adelaide South Australia, Australia
Re: Humanoid Sexuality in TrekLit (Minor Spoilers for VGD: Declassifie

Idran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
It leaves us making a fuss over an irrelevancy. This is Star Trek, where people are accepted for who they are as individuals and not judged because they don't conform to some arbitrary standard of purity. If you insist on sticking absolute labels on everyone, then you've missed the point of the entire franchise.
To be fair, Christopher, I think by this point Xander is less objecting to what happened to Bart and more just honestly curious about this sort of situation through his example, since it's a new situation to him.
good point Idran
also how about some of my fellow gay trekkies jump on here?
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