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Old July 18 2011, 12:50 PM   #106
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Bring Back Janeway panel from Shore Leave audio now available

Nick M wrote: View Post
Jolan Tru,

Well, as I figure out this tech stuff I am proud to announce that The G and T Show (a podcast devoted to Trek lit and Trek writing) the Bring Back Janeway panel from the 2011 Shore Leave is now available for you to listen to. It runs just under an hour.

(Ummm, a note to Kirsten Beyer...I was unable to edit the comment at the very begining, I truly am sorry...the one where you say why you are out of breath. I am REALLY sorry!!!!)

You can go to http://www.gandtshow.com and listen to it, or, for those who would like to download it for their iPod or other mp3 device, you can go to: http://t.co/71IXyeb - and *shameless plug* also subscribe to The G and T Show.

I will apologize for the audio from some of the people asking questions, there were some pretty good fans blowing in there and the room was packed, but I think when Ms. Beyer replies to the people you will get what their question was.

Enjoy and hope you become fans of the show!

Nick
Any way to grab an mp3 without having to install iTunes?
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Old July 18 2011, 01:14 PM   #107
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
The hardest parts of such statements are: how do you know the difference between casual and diehard fans (ie. during the height of TNG's popularity, a huge number of the general public admitted in polls to identifying as a "Star Trek fan" in that, yes, they watched it on TV regularly); what about fans who go back to a movie over and over and over?; and what about fans who borrow their friends' ST books and comics?
True.

Although it has to be said, these kinds of numbers can be very closely approximated by the toolsets we have available in the context of, for example, a marketing research mix ("MR mix") - in general, a look at both secondary (existing) data and primary (as in: collected by or for the organization) data works best.

Of course, this is costly both in terms of time and money.
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Old July 18 2011, 04:45 PM   #108
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Re: Bring Back Janeway panel from Shore Leave audio now available

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Any way to grab an mp3 without having to install iTunes?
I believe, I will have to check, that you can download it as an mp3 from http://gantshow.com as well. Under the button to play there it says Podcast: Download, just click on the work download.

We are working to make our show as accessible as possible.

Thanks again for your interest!

Jolan Tru,
Nick
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Old July 20 2011, 12:36 PM   #109
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Bring Back Janeway panel from Shore Leave audio now available

Nick M wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Any way to grab an mp3 without having to install iTunes?
I believe, I will have to check, that you can download it as an mp3 from http://gantshow.com as well. Under the button to play there it says Podcast: Download, just click on the work download.

We are working to make our show as accessible as possible.

Thanks again for your interest!

Jolan Tru,
Nick
Ah, thanks very much!

But the link's broken. Working one from above: http://www.gandtshow.com/
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Old July 20 2011, 11:23 PM   #110
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Kirsten Beyer wrote: View Post
Hi, all

My question is, why does Star Trek : Voyager Lit continue to fall back on the old 'yank their chains and then hit the reset button' tease used to such bad effect on the show?
I have to admit, I'm a litle confused by this question, but here goes.

[...]

Janeway's death had been established prior to Full Circle. If you are saying that Full Circle yanked chains by showing the consumation of Janeway and Chakotay's relationship, only to kill her a few pages later...that certainly wasn't the intent.
Apologies for not making it clearer. Yes, that's what I'm saying. The J/C 'timeline' (culminating in Janeway's death so soon after the consummation) was such a tease. Some would say that the J/C arc was about 15 years in the making in real-time as Voy started in 1995 - and the consummation was so swiftly followed by a bucket of iced water from the character's (and our) point of view. It was unbelievable, and to me, rather callous. Talk about flashing the tray of brownies to a hungry kid and then whisking them away again

But, anyway - thank you for at least entering into a dialogue with Janeway fans over this. I realise that you were handed a poisoned chalice after Peter David did the deed, and you did what you could to give us SOMETHING It's my hope that one day Janeway will be brought back from the Q, cash in her Admiral's rank-bar, and lead from the front again side by side with Chakotay and as many of her old crew as possible

Gill
xx

Last edited by Amal_Chakotay; July 20 2011 at 11:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old July 20 2011, 11:26 PM   #111
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Kirsten,

I'm surprised to hear that the people that decide the direction of these stories don't, even in some way, consider the fans opinions in the matter. Surely they must consider something --- otherwise, why even bother having this panel? What would be the purpose of it other than to allow a place for people to constructively vent and for your clarification of the story process?

Correct me if I've misunderstood something.

Again, thank you for participating here. I love your writing.



Forrest
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Old July 21 2011, 06:16 AM   #112
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

forrie wrote: View Post
Kirsten,

I'm surprised to hear that the people that decide the direction of these stories don't, even in some way, consider the fans opinions in the matter. Surely they must consider something --- otherwise, why even bother having this panel? What would be the purpose of it other than to allow a place for people to constructively vent and for your clarification of the story process?

Correct me if I've misunderstood something.

Again, thank you for participating here. I love your writing.



Forrest

I guess fan opinions matter in the sense that if sales of the books are affected in some perceivable way, the editors might consider changing course or authors. But when it comes to story specifics, fan opinions can't matter because they are always widely divergent. It may seem like the fans who want Kathryn Janeway back are the only or biggest group out there, but in my experience, they aren't, and their opinions do not reflect much of what I've heard about the novels since they started coming out. This does not, however, invalidate their opinions and I think for a long time most of them have thought just that...their opinions don't matter. What they need to understand is that no one's opinions matter in the way they seem to think they should...and why that is.

The purpose of the panel was, my attempt, futile though it seems to have been, to make sure that the Janeway fans, and those who felt strongly otherwise, had a chance to air their concerns directly to someone who is really connected to the process and hopefully that in addressing their specific questions I could offer some fresh insight into the process for them. I kept hearing for so long that no one was listening to them, and that troubled me. I wanted to make sure they knew that I was listening, even if I haven't yet been able to write a story that they find appealing.

KB
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Old July 21 2011, 05:10 PM   #113
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Kirsten,

I don't believe your attempt here is futile at all. In fact quite the opposite. I wish more authors would take the stance you've demonstrated. Not only was I able to air my concerns, they were heard, responded to (by the author!) and I received further information that caused me to re-evaluate my position objectively; and, I learned a few things about the writing process that I really hadn't understood.

At this moment, despite my want for Janeway to return, I now feel at peace with all of it, because I know more about what's going on. Had you not cared enough to take this time, I'd still be frustrated, joining the many other voices that felt betrayed for reasons of their own. ((THANK YOU))

I doubt I'm alone in being grateful for your being here.

Even with the absence of Janeway (thus far, and hopeful I remain), your stories and writing style are *very* appealing. You really have a talent for this, and I'm hoping you get to continue churning out these novels for a long, long time... as long as your fingers and mind can stand it :-)



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Old July 22 2011, 09:31 PM   #114
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Thank you, Kirsten, for taking the time to answer to our questions, no matter if we agree in all the points or not. I appreciated to have the possibility to hear your personal opinion after I heard David Mack's one earlier this year - and especially both in a businesslike way. I don't care about unqualified hecklings which are usually done here.

I adore Kathryn Janeway. She is a pleasure to write about. Thus far we have only told stories that deal with her death and its aftermath. But that does not in any way preclude telling future stories in which she is again featured as a character, and given the opportunity, I'd be thrilled to write them.
I would be thrilled to read this book of yours. As I said, you are the only actual Trek writer who would write this properly. What about thinking about such an opportunity? Bringing Janeway back doesn't mean necessarily that she has to be in the middle of each new book (which she wasn't in the old VOY novels either). But I believe her re-added character would make the VOY series richer again as well as get many fans back into purchasing VOY books again.

Thank you again.

Kathryn J.
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Old July 23 2011, 03:56 AM   #115
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

forrie wrote: View Post
I'm surprised to hear that the people that decide the direction of these stories don't, even in some way, consider the fans opinions in the matter.
Only about six months before Janeway's character died, the BBS had a heap of fan complaints that the ST licenced tie-ins were toothless. Like the shows, most major changes were too easily undone by The Reset Button. That they didn't "have the balls" to do something substantial with one of the main characters and change the status quo with a character death. With no reset button.

I'm sure those fans feel that their opinions were finally being considered by "the people that decide the direction of these stories".
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Old July 23 2011, 06:15 AM   #116
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Kirsten Beyer wrote: View Post
forrie wrote: View Post
Kirsten,

I'm surprised to hear that the people that decide the direction of these stories don't, even in some way, consider the fans opinions in the matter. Surely they must consider something --- otherwise, why even bother having this panel? What would be the purpose of it other than to allow a place for people to constructively vent and for your clarification of the story process?

Correct me if I've misunderstood something.

Again, thank you for participating here. I love your writing.



Forrest

I guess fan opinions matter in the sense that if sales of the books are affected in some perceivable way, the editors might consider changing course or authors. But when it comes to story specifics, fan opinions can't matter because they are always widely divergent. It may seem like the fans who want Kathryn Janeway back are the only or biggest group out there, but in my experience, they aren't, and their opinions do not reflect much of what I've heard about the novels since they started coming out. This does not, however, invalidate their opinions and I think for a long time most of them have thought just that...their opinions don't matter. What they need to understand is that no one's opinions matter in the way they seem to think they should...and why that is.

The purpose of the panel was, my attempt, futile though it seems to have been, to make sure that the Janeway fans, and those who felt strongly otherwise, had a chance to air their concerns directly to someone who is really connected to the process and hopefully that in addressing their specific questions I could offer some fresh insight into the process for them. I kept hearing for so long that no one was listening to them, and that troubled me. I wanted to make sure they knew that I was listening, even if I haven't yet been able to write a story that they find appealing.

KB
Well, I got to give you a lot of credit for giving us fans a chance to discuss this matter with you. If it had been those who were in charge of the TV show, they wouldn't have bothered to have a debate with the fans. Insteda they would have come up with some morbid story in which Janeway returns as a total lunatic determined to destroy the ship and then she would have been killed of in some bestialic way at the end of the story.

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that there are certain "guidelines" set by those in charge of the book company. So I have to ask a question: Isn't it a bit frustrating to have other people tell you what to write and not? I mean, I would get one of my well-known outbursts of rage if someone told me that I must kill off one of my main characters in my fanfiction stories.

And when it comes to how much the books are selling, imagine how many more people who would buy the books if Janeway was back.

Therin of Andor wrote:

Only about six months before Janeway's character died, the BBS had a heap of fan complaints that the ST licenced tie-ins were toothless. Like the shows, most major changes were too easily undone by The Reset Button. That they didn't "have the balls" to do something substantial with one of the main characters and change the status quo with a character death. With no reset button.

I'm sure those fans feel that their opinions were finally being considered by "the people that decide the direction of these stories".
And the only way to create some edge to the stories is to kill off beloved characters from the series?

Hardly conmstructive at all.

As for those fans, I don't think that those fans are a majority among the Star Trek fans. And if they want doom, gloom and death, then they can watch BSG or the daily news.
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Old July 23 2011, 10:53 AM   #117
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

It most certainly created a stir, and got the interest of fans who normally wouldn't pay any attention to the Trek novels.
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Old July 23 2011, 12:45 PM   #118
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

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If it had been those who were in charge of the TV show, they wouldn't have bothered to have a debate with the fans.
Well, Kirsten hasn't had a debate either. She answered fan questions and offered explanations for certain decisions.

And those "in charge of the show" most certainly took opportunities to answer fan questions and offer explanations. Gene Roddenberry, Michael Pillar, Jeri Taylor, Lolita Fajo (who coordinated the open fans'/newcomers' script submission process for TNG), Ron Moore, Brannon Braga and many others have attended conventions, chatted to fans, listened to critiques, responded to complaints, etc. Janice Rand, Beverly Crusher and Spock returned to the "Star Trek" universe partly due to pressure/interest from fans.

Insteda they would have come up with some morbid story in which Janeway returns as a total lunatic determined to destroy the ship and then she would have been killed of in some bestialic way at the end of the story.
But... they didn't.

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that there are certain "guidelines" set by those in charge of the book company.
No, the main guideline the licensees must follow is that the tie-ins conform to events shown in canon (ie. on-screen). The editors of the Relaunch books do develop a possible broad direction for ongoing plots, but the various authors fill in the details themselves, but everything must be approved by the team at CBS Licensing, who act on behave of the copyright owner, CBS (previously Paramount/Viacom.)

So I have to ask a question: Isn't it a bit frustrating to have other people tell you what to write and not?
When you were a kid at school, weren't you ever set a topic for storywriting? Should fiction writing always be "free choice"? Some people perform at their best when writing to strict parameters.

I mean, I would get one of my well-known outbursts of rage if someone told me that I must kill off one of my main characters in my fanfiction stories.
As you would say, it's science fiction. There are hundreds of ways you can bring them back.

And when it comes to how much the books are selling, imagine how many more people who would buy the books if Janeway was back.
A drop in the ocean. Just as many might stop buying because they hate Reset Buttons.

And the only way to create some edge to the stories is to kill off beloved characters from the series?
No, but that's what some fans were asking Pocket Books to be brave enough to do. Perhaps as many as didn't want Janeway to die?

I don't think that those fans are a majority among the Star Trek fans.
There may be more of these than those who love Janeway. How do you plan to count them?

And if they want doom, gloom and death, then they can watch BSG or the daily news.
None of which is remotely likely to give them the "Star Trek" book they are asking to read. The recent novels with "doom, gloom and death" are actually very uplifting as the Starfleet heroes rise to face the various tragedies.
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Old July 28 2011, 08:17 PM   #119
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

The purpose of the panel was, my attempt, futile though it seems to have been, to make sure that the Janeway fans, and those who felt strongly otherwise, had a chance to air their concerns directly to someone who is really connected to the process and hopefully that in addressing their specific questions I could offer some fresh insight into the process for them. I kept hearing for so long that no one was listening to them, and that troubled me. I wanted to make sure they knew that I was listening, even if I haven't yet been able to write a story that they find appealing.

KB[/QUOTE]

Hi Kirsten

Apologies as I havent been able to listen to your panel all the way through yet so if what I am about to say goes over old ground I apologise.

I absolutely love your Voyager novels, I'm a huge fan of Janeway and I would love to see her back in trek fiction but please do not think for one moment that you have not written a story that I can find appealing.

Your characterisation is spot on and your imaginative, challenging, emotional stoylines have been a pleasure to read. Ive read a lot of trek fiction. Ive always been a fan of Peter David's TNG work in particular for many, many years. But you may well be my new favourite trek author....sorry Peter I bet he's just going to be gutted when he hears that...

The death of Janeway has given the opportunity to explore the other characters in a unique and fascinating way (for example watching Chakotay unravel so spectacularly, he's always - well nearly always- been the calm, rational and moral focus of Voyager - your books are probably the material Beltran always craved when on the show).

If I have one gripe, and it is really only one - I can accept the death of Janeway for the reasons outlined above but did the powers that be have really have to do it in a next generation novel. Its like taking Picard to the DS9 novels and killing him off there!

I can also accept the death of janeway because, lets be honest, this is sci fi. And the reason I love sci fi so much is that we can always bring people back from the dead (or the continuum....)

Since Janeway's death the Voyager characters have grown so much in their own right. Just imagine how interesting it would be to bring her back into this new dynamic. Not that I am trying to influence your future writing in any way shape or form. Really. Honest.

Anyway enough of my rambling. Kudos to you for the panel, as a mere fan its fascinating to get an insight into world of trek lit. I shall go and listen to the rest of it now.

Thanks.

p.s so voyager novel....2012?
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Old July 29 2011, 07:13 AM   #120
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Re: Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Lynx wrote: View Post
Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that there are certain "guidelines" set by those in charge of the book company. So I have to ask a question: Isn't it a bit frustrating to have other people tell you what to write and not? I mean, I would get one of my well-known outbursts of rage if someone told me that I must kill off one of my main characters in my fanfiction stories.

...

And the only way to create some edge to the stories is to kill off beloved characters from the series?
This really is a case by case thing...

In the first place...I often see people refer to the "guidelines" that are or were part of the submission policy for unsolicited manuscripts for potential new writers. In that case, there were specific do's and don't's, including not killing major characters...but that never had anything to do with the actual books being written. That, along with the other stated perameters were designed to see if a potential author could follow established rules...whatever they may be...and still produce a compelling story. If they demonstrated that, then the work might begin on an actual story that might someday be published that would then be free to ignore the parameters established for the "audition" phase of the process.

If we're talking about actual books the publisher is contracting to publish, sometimes the editor has broad ideas and the authors get to create the details. Sometimes, as in Before Dishonor, the editor has one or many specific story requirements and the author has to follow those if he/she wants to write the book.

Is it frustrating at times? Sure. But it comes with the job. If you don't want to follow the editor's direction, you don't write the book and someone else does. If these kinds of creative contraints are too stifling to imagine, you're definitely better off writing your own original work and not trying to write tie-in fiction of any kind.

And, no, killing a major character isn't the only way to create some edge, as you say. It is one of many choices that were before us, and the one we chose to explore at the time. That's all.

May4th...

Thanks for your many kind words. Youre specific question about killing Janeway in a TNG book rather than a Voyager book was addressed somewhere above and basically had more to do with what was happening in Treklit as a whole at the time than any intention on anyone's part to tick off Voyager's fans.

As to 2012...nothing is official yet. When it is, I'll share.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer
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