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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 12 2011, 03:49 AM   #91
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Thrawn wrote: View Post
I hope that's because everyone at Pocket realized she was a shitty Star Trek writer that brought nothing to the table and stopped hiring her on purpose.
Well, she got the gig as VOY Relaunch author because her regular VOY novels had consistently outsold everyone else's. So Golden's ST writing did work for many fans.
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Old July 12 2011, 04:47 AM   #92
Thrawn
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

She was fine for standalones within the series. She just wasn't good at breaking new ground. Everything was too easy, resolved too happily.
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Old July 12 2011, 06:52 AM   #93
Captain Robert April
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

In other words, she picked up where the series left off and kept it going.

Sounds like she was doing her job.
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Old July 12 2011, 10:53 AM   #94
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

I feel like Golden starts off strong and then it starts to go down hill.. first couple VOY relaunches were punchy with good characterizations. Next couple, very hard to wade through, story ideas and writing quite disjointed. Same thing with her Warcraft books, wrote one that made me cry but by the time she got to the Lich King it seemed a very hollow read, quite weak. All opinion of course, and I'll still be buying her next Warcraft book which is coming out soon.
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Old July 12 2011, 12:08 PM   #95
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Thrawn wrote: View Post
She was fine for standalones within the series. She just wasn't good at breaking new ground. Everything was too easy, resolved too happily.
I would not call a poor girl, abused her entire life and then killed, "resolved happily"

That's probably the darkest chapter in all of Star Trek.
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Old July 12 2011, 06:21 PM   #96
Thrawn
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

^ No, I just mean... like, Janeway is promoted to admiral in 3 seconds, not even a trial. And Chakotay magically gets command, despite many reasons he shouldn't. And Tuvok's disease is instantly cured. And Chakotay and Seven split after a 2-page conversation. And Kim gets back together with Libby and everything is perfect. And Janeway meets her ex husband's new wife and they get along famously and everything is great.

Like, she took all of the possibilities for actual character *arcs* and ignored them completely and systematically. I still contend that Homecoming is the single most egregious missed opportunity in the entirety of TrekLit.
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Old July 12 2011, 06:43 PM   #97
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Given some of her other works (she wrote a couple of Ravenloft books that I consider amongst the best) I find that rather surprising. She never struck me as the "wrap it with a pretty little bow" type.

Then again, no idea what constraints she may have been operating under.

I actually interviewed her by email for a college project a few years back, though I was rather in awe of her as a writer at that point and probably didn't handle it as well as I should have.
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Old July 12 2011, 11:53 PM   #98
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Thrawn wrote: View Post
I still contend that Homecoming is the single most egregious missed opportunity in the entirety of TrekLit.
The best version of "Homecoming" is the bonus teaser section in the back of the novelization of "Endgame".
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Old July 15 2011, 06:56 PM   #99
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Thrawn wrote: View Post
I still contend that Homecoming is the single most egregious missed opportunity in the entirety of TrekLit.
The best version of "Homecoming" is the bonus teaser section in the back of the novelization of "Endgame".
Thank you! I remember wondering when I was reading Homecoming why that book was so bad, but the teaser epilogue in the novelization was so good.

I wonder what role John Ordover had in developing the VGR relaunch plot. It has a lot of similarities to the beginning of the A Time to series... Starfleet bureaucracy verses an innocent crew, the Dominion War aftermath constantly being on everyones' minds long after it was over (unlike the DS9 relaunch that moved on with that rather quickly).

I've only read Homecoming/Furthest Shore and Before Dishonor (have all the rest of the VGR-R to read when I get there) so can't comment on the rest, but BD was better than Homecoming/Furthest Shore, but that isn't saying much. I am a PAD fan more or less (along as he doesn't make easily avoidable continuity errors that all the other authors manage to pull off), but he could have handled Janeway's demise in a far better way. I had no issue with killing her off, provided it was done the right way. Instead it came across as a big F-you to VGR fans, who are already used to taking s**t as it is. Let's say in Before Dishonor instead of having Janeway be assimilated, it was Admiral Uhura of Starfleet Intelligence checking out the vacant cube. How would the TOS fans have reacted?
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Old July 15 2011, 09:25 PM   #100
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

...Why would Uhura be checking out a Borg cube?

If it had been 7-of-9 it might have had a feeling of grim inevitability.

If it had been Picard I would have been shocked...but not necessarily more shocked than that they did it with Janeway.
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Old July 15 2011, 09:29 PM   #101
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

cal888 wrote: View Post
Let's say in Before Dishonor instead of having Janeway be assimilated, it was Admiral Uhura of Starfleet Intelligence checking out the vacant cube. How would the TOS fans have reacted?
I would've wondered why the hell she hadn't died or retired years earlier.
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Old July 15 2011, 09:42 PM   #102
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

DonIago wrote: View Post
If it had been Picard I would have been shocked...
Where as I would have been annoyed becuase they had done that two books ago.

Christopher wrote: View Post
cal888 wrote: View Post
Let's say in Before Dishonor instead of having Janeway be assimilated, it was Admiral Uhura of Starfleet Intelligence checking out the vacant cube. How would the TOS fans have reacted?
I would've wondered why the hell she hadn't died or retired years earlier.
Yeah you raise a good point.
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Old July 15 2011, 11:24 PM   #103
cal888
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

True, although from what I've heard about the Vulcan's Soul trilogy, it establishes Checkov and Uhura as being around after Nemesis. I just picked Uhura's name out of the hat to develop a contrast between how TOS and VGR characters could be perceived, if not by the writers/editors, but the fans reading at home.

My point is more geared towards the real-life "political" decision to kill off Janeway, how it was implemented in an arguably haphazard manor, and how VGR fans interpreted it/reacted to it. Would TPTB have killed off a TOS character like that? I'm not arguing that a double standard exists, just that a double standard could be perceived by some VGR fans.

I do think a major TOS bias exists in the book line, but that is probably more due to standalone TOS books selling well compared to the 24th Century books and ENT.
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Old July 16 2011, 12:15 AM   #104
JWolf
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Christopher wrote: View Post
For that matter, we have multiple precedents in the Trek universe for even a non-sapient computer spontaneously evolving sentience in the right circumstances: Moriarty, the "Emergence" entity, Voyager's EMH. So even if we stipulate to your premise that a Borg cube's cybernetic systems are, for whatever reason, no more intelligent to start with than a Starfleet computer mainframe, that still doesn't rule out the possibility that they could become self-aware in unusual or extreme circumstances.
Don't forget (I know its not cannon but it still fits) when Titan's computer became sentient. And if the Borg cube's cybernetic systems are comparable, then there's no reason that those system cannot also become sentient.
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Old July 16 2011, 12:26 AM   #105
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I'm just waiting for Christie Golden to get the green light to bring Janeway back...
I think you'll have a hell of a wait. Janeway is dead and not coming back. And I think you may find the new stories are better for her being dead.
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