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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 6 2011, 04:00 PM   #46
AuntKate
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Thrawn wrote: View Post
Don't let christopher scare you off. He does this a lot, but the attitude is unintentional. He's just passionate in a way that doesn't come across well online sometimes.
Good comment.

I don't care who a poster is or what he/she does for a living, there is no "nerd chief" who is the arbiter of all things Trek, no matter what their attitude or passion. Every person's understanding of Trek is valid to them and should be respected. Posters can have their say without becoming arrogant or condescending. So, yeah, don't be put off by anyone here.
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Old July 6 2011, 08:18 PM   #47
zar
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

sosolidshoe wrote: View Post
I do suggest you do some research into nanotechnology, because most of the terms you use don't mean anything close to what you think they mean.
That's a silly accusation; he didn't use any terms that actually exist in real-world nanotechnology, unless you count "nanotech"/"cybernetics" itself. This isn't hard sci-fi...
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Old July 6 2011, 09:59 PM   #48
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

My honest feelings about Before Dishonor are that, although people are of course free to dislike it, the fervor with which that dislike tends to be expressed is grossly overblown. The book, IMO, is not nearly as problematic as majority opinion would make it seem, and I honestly had no problems whatsoever with how Peter David handled Janeway and Seven, even though he has admitted that he personally doesn't like either character.

As for my own opinions about the book itself as opposed to the dislike that it genders, I enjoyed it, although I don't think it's quite as good as PD's New Frontier stuff.
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Old July 6 2011, 10:58 PM   #49
j3067
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

My main problem with the book is that it felt more like an amalgamation of Superman 3 & 4 than Star Trek to me.

You've got a beloved character turned evil by an outside force, plus a lady who gets turned into a cyborg by the super-computer at the end. When the cube plunged into the sun all I could think of was the solar creature Lex made in Superman 4. It made it very hard for me to take the book seriously as Trek.

Nobody ate Pluto in those movies, so I guess BD exceeds those films in absurdity.

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Old July 7 2011, 08:27 AM   #50
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

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AuntKate wrote: View Post
If that were the case, why bother with the organic component at all? Seems like it is more of a problem than a help.
I don't know why you'd draw that conclusion. Even the mutated technology in BD still needed to assimilate organic bodies to function at full capacity. It's simply a variation on the same theme. The Borg are and have always been a hybrid of the organic and the technological. Their whole mentality is one of collectivization and assimilation. They wouldn't think to pose the question in those terms, either organic or technological, one or the other in opposition. It's their fundamental nature as a species to think in terms of unifying different things into a homogeneous whole. Where you see an option of organics or technology, they would be incapable of conceiving the or and would only see it as an and. Both organics and technology have potentials and benefits, and it's the Borg's fundamental drive to assimilate anything that can be of use to them. It would never occur to them to reject one option in favor of the other; they want it all.
Yep. I also think we should emphasize that, as per Star Trek: Destiny, the Collective's desire to assimilate biological lifeforms is not a rational drive.

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Old July 7 2011, 12:49 PM   #51
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

I enjoyed BD for what it was: a fun knock-about romp through Trek. It's good silly fun.

The problem was the positioning of such a light-hearted OTT approach to the fiction in the middle of an ongoing narrative that took it a lot more seriously, and also the fact that said book was dealing with some very serious events with major repercussions, including the death of a much loved character. It didn't quite fit for me. But it was fun.
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Old July 7 2011, 03:36 PM   #52
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

^I agree with all of this.

Without placing blame, my understanding is that communication between the various parties involved in the production of the books was suboptimal, which doubtless didn't help. In fact, reading all of the books in series makes it seem rather obvious that either there were communication failures/omissions or the writers are far less competent than one would tend to assume based on their prior works.

In any case, while PAD surely is somewhat responsible for any perceived shortcomings within the text, I don't believe he likely deserves the demonization he tends to receive regarding BD.
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Old July 7 2011, 05:08 PM   #53
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Taken by itself, I thought it was a pretty fun read. Nowhere close to PAD's usual level, though the blow was softened by the death of a character I can't stand in the least, which made me chuckle.
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Old July 7 2011, 11:12 PM   #54
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

zarkon wrote: View Post
Taken by itself, I thought it was a pretty fun read. Nowhere close to PAD's usual level, though the blow was softened by the death of a character I can't stand in the least, which made me chuckle.
Also, PAD has his own following. People who read all of his comic titles and any novels he writes, originals and media tie-ins, and even his "David Peters" titles ("Psi-Man"?) - yet these readers may not call themselves Star Trek fans. I recall many people being surprised that BD turned out to also be a sequel to "Vendetta".
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Old July 8 2011, 05:56 PM   #55
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

I don't know why anyone complains about this book, beyond Janeway lovers being upset their captain died. It was a great plot and well executed. Sure it had its light hearted moments but I think they were good for off setting the tension from the seriousness of the events. And remember, now we don't have to debate about what to call Pluto!


PD was given a tough assignment. I appreciate how he handled it and not actually killing Janeway. I honestly don't think another writer would have handled the editorial assignment better and delivered as enjoyable and gripping a read.
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Old July 8 2011, 08:09 PM   #56
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

^Not if Janeway convinces Q to send Pluto back with her...
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Old July 8 2011, 08:37 PM   #57
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

If it were me I would have plumped for the ending being Q jailing Janeway for being a dangerous, savage child(Tuvix, future timeline in Endgame, passim).
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Old July 8 2011, 08:45 PM   #58
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

^That reminds me of how I always wanted "Murder She Wrote" to end. I used to get stuck at my Grandparents house every week and I was always hopping that they would reveal that Angela Landsbury was framing people for murders that she committed every week.
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Old July 8 2011, 11:55 PM   #59
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

j3067 wrote: View Post
^Not if Janeway convinces Q to send Pluto back with her...
Janeway comes back as Pluto.
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Old July 9 2011, 12:26 AM   #60
Christopher
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Janeway comes back as Pluto.
Gee, first a salamander, now a dog...
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