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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old December 24 2011, 02:29 AM   #241
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor
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Old December 24 2011, 02:34 AM   #242
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

-sorry posting error-
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Old December 24 2011, 02:35 AM   #243
JWolf
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor
If there's going to be a better cover, it'll be the German cover that's better. So why is it that the German cover's are better? Why can't we get them too?
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Old December 24 2011, 02:41 AM   #244
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

JWolf wrote: View Post
So why is it that the German cover's are better?
20/20 hindsight?

The German covers come out after months/years of fannish debate as to what's supposedly "wrong" with the originals.

Why can't we get them too?
We can! I bought a cool German translation of "Martyr" just to get an Ensign Janos cover from amazon.de
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Old December 24 2011, 02:42 AM   #245
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Alright, you win. All authors write all characters equally well. Women now, then and in the future are, were and will be portrayed with exactly the same respect as the male characters. Any perception of any bias now or in the future is simply signs of ignorance on the part of the perceptor.

All done now.

Merry Christmas everyone. I'm going for a drink.
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Old December 24 2011, 02:47 AM   #246
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

MattWallace wrote: View Post
Any perception of any bias now or in the future is simply signs of ignorance on the part of the perceptor.
Certainly can be. That's why you need some hard evidence before you trample all over people's feelings with sweeping, negative statements.
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Old December 24 2011, 02:49 AM   #247
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
So why is it that the German cover's are better?
20/20 hindsight?

The German covers come out after months/years of fannish debate as to what's supposedly "wrong" with the originals.

Why can't we get them too?
We can! I bought a cool German translation of "Martyr" just to get an Ensign Janos cover from amazon.de
Perhaps they should just go ahead and let the Germans make the original cover in anticipation of it being better than what Americans will come up with since I have yet to see a cover where I didn't like the German one better. Y'know, unpimp ze star trek.


I do love those Janos covers. Ahhh Janos, another dead but not dead character.
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Old December 24 2011, 03:19 AM   #248
Captain Robert April
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

JWolf wrote: View Post
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post

I'm not sure you can include that one. We don't actually know if there was a death.
Wait, wait. So you aren't sure if he is dead but you are certain Janeway is?
We know Janeway is dead. We know there's a way to bring her back. What I'm saying is let her stay dead.
Okay, now I really want her brought back.
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Old December 24 2011, 03:29 AM   #249
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Just noticed the German cover. Am I alone in preferring the German cover? In the original, Seven looks sad and grief-stricken. The German one is dynamic and has Seven fearful/shocked about what is coming. It is like the original is set after the book and the German one before, making the latter more appealing on a book shelf. Only change I would have made, show the cube eating Pluto. Ooops, was that a spoiler!?!
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Before_Dishonor
I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel, (even if it is one shared with Voyager) which was my biggest gripe about the American cover, that it was a TNG novel with only a Voyager-created character on the cover. Yeah, I know it's a superficial complaint, but it bugged me all the same.
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Old December 24 2011, 03:37 AM   #250
Therin of Andor
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel...
There is a Borg Cube on the US cover. A bloody big one! Or a very close one.
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Old December 24 2011, 03:47 AM   #251
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel...
There is a Borg Cube on the US cover. A bloody big one! Or a very close one.
...Huh. So you're right. It's placed close enough to the edges of the front cover, though, that I mistook it for a background behind Seven until you pointed it out. So I'm still against the cover of the American version, just based upon the layout, rather than the elements.
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Old December 24 2011, 05:49 AM   #252
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
I like it better too, though more because of the Borg cube, making it that there is at least an element from TNG on the cover of a TNG novel...
There is a Borg Cube on the US cover. A bloody big one! Or a very close one.

It might not be a big one. We just know it is bigger than Seven.
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Old December 24 2011, 06:15 AM   #253
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

MattWallace wrote: View Post
Let's not forget the very first female captain we saw. The Saratoga was disabled by the whale probe in TVH. Last we saw of her, she was calling for someone to help her. When we later saw that captain of the Yorktown, who was in a similar situation, he said that they were trying to generate power with a makeshift sloar sail (should be panel but let's assume he meant what he said). In his care, he's doing something to help himself and his crew and she's asking someone to rescue her.
But in the later books she popped up as the Commander of all of Starfleet, so in this case the books have actually moved the character to a significantly stronger position from when we saw her on screen. Same goes for Sonya Gomez, who is now Captain of the SCE ship Da Vinci in the post-Destiny time frame. They've also moved up Ro, introduced a new female chief of Security for the EE, made Uhura the head of Starfleet Intelligence, given Riker a female XO, created a new UFP President, and given us three female Romulan leaders, and a female Andorian leader. So I can't help but disagree very, very strongly with anyone who feels that there is even the slightest bit of sexism in Trek Lit. Same goes for Rascism, in the recent books we've seen Geordi promoted to Captain, we've gotten an Asian Admiral and a Hispanic Commodore both in the same series. We've also gotten an African American XO for Ezri, and I'm sure there are several other examples of minority characters in important roles that I am forgetting about at the moment.
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
So keeping Janeway relevant and interesting would have been a "challenge"? Why couldn't Janeway have changed her mind about going back to delta and decided to be the Fleet Admiral? Sisko couldn't have gone back to work without going through a divorce. The stories are compelling and interesting as is. However, I think out is silly to say these characters can't have amazing stories and careers while either having happy family lives or desk jobs.

For example, take Clive Cussler's protagonist Dirk Pitt. Most of those books had him in a job that put him in the center of the action while meeting new loves and occasionally watching them die. Now Pitt is married with kids and a government desk job. However, he still leaves his desk in assignments and has adventures just as good as in Cussler's earlier works. A desk and a family is not the death of a character's ability to be compelling, have adventures, and generate emotion from readers. Cussler and Pitt have proved that.
I think it's worth pointing out here that Picard is now married to Beverly with a son, and he's still out there commanding the Enterprise and getting into trouble.
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Old December 24 2011, 08:19 AM   #254
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

oh, hey, you know that movie Titanic?

the ship sinks.
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Old December 24 2011, 09:08 AM   #255
j3067
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Re: Before Dishonour....seriously?!

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
oh, hey, you know that movie Titanic?

the ship sinks.
If anyone knows what Soylent Green really is it better be tagged as well.
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