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Old July 25 2011, 01:38 AM   #61
Cary L. Brown
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Austin, Texas
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Hi Peter...

Go back and watch that scene again (I'm sure you have the DVD handy, right?)

Kirk walks from that corridor (shot one) and goes to his RIGHT (our screen-left) in shot 2. For what you suggest to be the case, he'd have to to to his left (our screen-right) as he walks from that corridor.

The forwards-facing corridor as Kirk talks to Decker about taking command is a whole 'nother problem... unsolvable without abandoning Probert's engine-shaft concept. Your approach is fine, of course, but in this case, since that corridor never really played into the storytelling (you could CGI it into a T-intersection and the story would not be altered in any way whatsoever) I just sort of ignore that.

But hey, that's just me. Really, you could make it a couple of segments shorter (getting rid of the painting is most of what you'd need, really!) and you could put that into place, couldn't you? Yes, it would almost bump up against the dish surface, but who's to say that the dish is a solid structure?

Me, though, I'll just ignore that bit, just like I ignore the flat floor of the Rec Deck, or the bridge (in later movies) that won't fit into the dome, or the shot in ST-V where Kirk/Spock/McCoy are in the "wheel room" and the window is twice what any real window on the ship (except botany and officer's lounge, neither of which faces FWD) could be without more than doubling the size of the ship.

Where is your engine shaft relative to the shaft cover on the dorsal?
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Old July 25 2011, 02:15 AM   #62
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Go back and watch that scene again (I'm sure you have the DVD handy, right?)

Kirk walks from that corridor (shot one) and goes to his RIGHT (our screen-left) in shot 2. For what you suggest to be the case, he'd have to to to his left (our screen-right) as he walks from that corridor.
...
Where is your engine shaft relative to the shaft cover on the dorsal?
Hi Cary,

Yes - but look at shot 2 and the location of the lift (on Kirk's right). I mapped him walking from the starboard to the forward section of the room because of the lift location. It can't be the lift location in the back as we would clearly see the giant hexagon in the shot. As to which way Kirk went as he came in from that corridor it's kind of irrelevant as he ended up on the starboard side. Since we don't know what the layout was past the camera, he could have went to the port, double-back and went around to the starboard entrance.

BTW, I believe that starboard entrance was also used in TWOK when Kirk runs in through before sliding down the ladder to get to Spock.

I'll upload up where I ended up putting the engineering section (or I might have it somewhere on my TOS Enterprise thread later tonight.
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Old July 25 2011, 03:02 AM   #63
Cary L. Brown
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Austin, Texas
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Go back and watch that scene again (I'm sure you have the DVD handy, right?)

Kirk walks from that corridor (shot one) and goes to his RIGHT (our screen-left) in shot 2. For what you suggest to be the case, he'd have to to to his left (our screen-right) as he walks from that corridor.
...
Where is your engine shaft relative to the shaft cover on the dorsal?
Hi Cary,

Yes - but look at shot 2 and the location of the lift (on Kirk's right). I mapped him walking from the starboard to the forward section of the room because of the lift location. It can't be the lift location in the back as we would clearly see the giant hexagon in the shot. As to which way Kirk went as he came in from that corridor it's kind of irrelevant as he ended up on the starboard side. Since we don't know what the layout was past the camera, he could have went to the port, double-back and went around to the starboard entrance.

BTW, I believe that starboard entrance was also used in TWOK when Kirk runs in through before sliding down the ladder to get to Spock.

I'll upload up where I ended up putting the engineering section (or I might have it somewhere on my TOS Enterprise thread later tonight.
Well, we know that they didn't build the "upstairs" portion of this... what you see in that shot is the main floor, redressed.

I believe that there are two one-man lifts.. one in the fore-starboard corner and one in the port aft corner of the bay. Shane Johnson assumed the same in "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" as well, so this is "semi-official." And it just makes sense, honestly. (I think that in TWOK they replaced one of them with a ladder, though... I don't think that the ladder was there in TMP, was it?)

There is no "cut" in that sequence to indicate that there is a break in time between his walking in and you seeing him walk to the edge of the shaft pit.

I really did think what you think, at one point. I spent a silly amount of time rewatching that scene until I finally decided that this was the only way that made sense.

But you can make other assumptions. As always, when there is a conflict or disconnect, we can either choose one element to keep and another to toss, or we can just sit back and watch it and just keep repeating to ourselves that it's just a show, we should really just relax...
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Old July 25 2011, 03:34 AM   #64
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
Well, we know that they didn't build the "upstairs" portion of this... what you see in that shot is the main floor, redressed.
That does not sound right. On the upstairs portion, Kirk had to walk over to the lift that lowered him down into the main floor.

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
I believe that there are two one-man lifts.. one in the fore-starboard corner and one in the port aft corner of the bay. Shane Johnson assumed the same in "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" as well, so this is "semi-official." And it just makes sense, honestly. (I think that in TWOK they replaced one of them with a ladder, though... I don't think that the ladder was there in TMP, was it?)
Correct - there are two lifts in TMP, the fore-starboard corner and the aft-port corner. For TWOK, a ladder was added to the aft-starboard corner.

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
There is no "cut" in that sequence to indicate that there is a break in time between his walking in and you seeing him walk to the edge of the shaft pit.
In this case, I only need a camera cut. Kirk walks past the camera to the right which is heading to the starboard of the ship (based on my assumption that the corridor comes from the front.) It works out that he enters on the starboard side of the engine room.

Yes, I know it's only a show. I just choose a very specific approach in recreating a 3D replica of it. It's just a different approach, that's all

Oh, and here is where I ended up placing the vertical warp shaft (ship scaled to 355m)...

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Old July 25 2011, 06:59 AM   #65
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Cary, you can fit the TMP corridor sets into Ariel at ANY height. It is only if you insist that the ones that were shown are the ONLY corridors on the ship that you will run into a unsolvable scaling problem. If those TMP corridors represent certain passageways in the inner saucer or in the secondary hull, no problem.

As for other sets, they wouldn't translate directly. For example, I intended Ariel to have Probert's original, tiered rec deck with its waterfalls and xenoscaping. The engineering area would be bigger. The bridge would be bigger. And the cargo holds would be entirely different.

It all can work, but only if you don't insist you've already seen all the corridors and spaces there are to see.
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Old July 30 2011, 08:51 PM   #66
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Nothing to say some corridors are shorter than others too. An old idea for a later project with some extra sauce--for the goose...
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/s...l=1#post531456

Last edited by publiusr; July 30 2011 at 09:27 PM.
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Old August 20 2011, 07:02 PM   #67
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

The Enterprise interior for planet of the Titans was rather like that on Ken Adams other work, Drax's space station, as per this
http://mehallo.com/blog/archives/7742

So perhaps a new interior could borrow from this, with a new bridge interior. I do want to see this finished. Nothing says it has to be just refit corridors

http://www.ralphmcquarrie.com/galler...rek/index.html
http://io9.com/5721854/ralph-mcquarr...1977/gallery/1
http://trekweb.com/articles/2010/02/...ek-Movie.shtml
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=24399
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Old September 17 2011, 09:05 PM   #68
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

I do hope for a revisit, different orthos--something to stereolith a model would be nice.

O/T article
http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/68/68startrek.php
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Old September 18 2011, 04:56 AM   #69
Cary L. Brown
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Austin, Texas
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Oh, I'll come back to this one of these days... but my "muse" is gone for the time being. (And no, I don't mean Salma Hayek, though she could certainly get my inspiration level up a bit!)


Hobbies, like this, are something we do when we're enjoying what we're doing. The moment that the "joy" drops out of a task, for whatever reason, we should never hesitate to set it aside, until/unless we get our inspiration again.

Thankfully, this latest round at TrekBBS has not seen the sort of nonsense that we'd see from time to time in the past. Granted, I've been told about some ongoing attacks posted against me in other forums (where I don't even go) by "the usual suspects," but in this forum, it's been a lot less aggravating than it was in the past, and nobody has been coming into threads I'm posting for that purpose since I popped back in (after about fifteen months entirely away).

I'm not "aggravated" right now... nobody's said or done anything to bring that sort of thing about, don't worry. I'm just "uninspired." So, until my inspiration returns, this will stay on the shelf for a while.

But I DO appreciate your continued interest.

Last edited by Cary L. Brown; September 18 2011 at 05:15 AM.
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Old September 19 2011, 04:09 AM   #70
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

I hope you do. I like what you've done thusfar. Our only difference is over the interior, and I hope you understand me not wanting to be limited by the TMP sets for a ship that was supposed to have been built five years later, was several times larger, and was supposedly built for a wholly different purpose. That, my work on fleshing out Jefferies' ideas on the TOS ship's layout and my ideas on the Avenger class are what lead me to where I am. And heck, even if you can't see that interior the way I do, just flesh it out the way you want and we'll say it's a different ship!
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Old September 24 2011, 07:26 PM   #71
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Or a refit or whatever. Just having the exterior. I liked your Titan take which is your avatar, and your very long intergalactic vessel concept you posted over at Design the next Enterprise. Ariel deserves its own place--right alongside The Edward Teller and Ken/Ralphs originals
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Old September 24 2011, 10:14 PM   #72
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: U.S.S. Ariel - Federation Shuttlecarrier

Drop it. He asked for my help and I gave it. He didn't like what he got. So be it. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
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