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Old September 2 2012, 12:08 PM   #511
Pauln6
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

RPJOB wrote: View Post
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Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Lol - that's why I don't view the griping negatively. Turn that negative into a positive!
Sure, but it can be very destructive. Fans wonder aloud why people think that avid fans are embarrassing, and the fans manage to reinforce the stereotypes while they are in loud denial.
And not only did Kirk & Old Spock have to end up in the same general area as the outpost, Spock had to be on a line between the outpost and where Kirk landed. Imagine two people trying to get to the Empire State Building. Start one in Queen and the other in New Jersey. How likely are they to cross paths before they get to their destination?

There was no leadership shown by Kirk. No reason for why his prime crew was so loyal to him. Why are these people follwoing him other than they get to be on the coolest ship and, in Spock's case, because his older self told him to. Spock-Prime told Kirk about their friendship and yet, at the end, we didn't see Kirk ask Spock to join him. It was all Spock's choice. Everyone seemed to need Kirk. Kirk didn't seem to need anyone.
Thanks, I was going to make the point about needing to be in the same line to meet. And Kirk was deposited roughly a day's walk from the base with minimal equipment (albeit we don't know how long a day is on this planet and he most likely had survival equipment in his pod that he left behind) so any kind of deviation from a direct line to the base could have added a big time factor to his journey.

There were indeed fudged leadership issues because they needed Kirk to be in a position of leadership and they'd decided to make young Spock a senior officer, despite his young age (by removing Pike's first officer). They wanted it to be the Kirk and Spock show as they were the most popular TOS characters and this was a movie to reintroduce us to them. However, I think Serenity shows you can have principle characters who can work really well in a fleshed out ensemble. I would have preferred it if more crew had beamed across to take down Nero. There were several occasions where the mission almost failed due to lack of back-up.

I hope that they get to grips with this issue and don't do illogically under-resourced landing parties in the sequel.
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Old September 2 2012, 01:50 PM   #512
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Thanks, I was going to make the point about needing to be in the same line to meet. And Kirk was deposited roughly a day's walk from the base with minimal equipment (albeit we don't know how long a day is on this planet and he most likely had survival equipment in his pod that he left behind) so any kind of deviation from a direct line to the base could have added a big time factor to his journey.
Except that Kirk wasn't supposed to leave the escape pod at all; he did so against the explicit advice of the pod's computer. Presumably the intention was that the outpost staff (i.e. Scott & Keenser) would come and get him.
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Old September 2 2012, 02:19 PM   #513
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Christopher wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Thanks, I was going to make the point about needing to be in the same line to meet. And Kirk was deposited roughly a day's walk from the base with minimal equipment (albeit we don't know how long a day is on this planet and he most likely had survival equipment in his pod that he left behind) so any kind of deviation from a direct line to the base could have added a big time factor to his journey.
Except that Kirk wasn't supposed to leave the escape pod at all; he did so against the explicit advice of the pod's computer. Presumably the intention was that the outpost staff (i.e. Scott & Keenser) would come and get him.
Yeah, that's true - it's one of the plot holes. It would make more sense if the expectation was for the base to transport Kirk off the lifepod after detecting his emergency signal. It must have taken Kirk best part of a day to reach the outpost and yet when they arrive, Scotty thinks they're from a supply ship. It seems the outpost has no long range sensors (didn't notice Nero in their system, Spock's transporter signal, Enterprise passing through, or Kirk's escape pod landing), no localised communications (unaware of life pod's signal even after a day on the planet) and no long range communications (nobody mentions any attempt to warn Earth or anybody else nearby) and yet they can detect the Enterprise at warp and scan with sufficient accuracy to beam someone over a light year using the shuttle.

If Scotty is such a great engineer and has no sensors or communications other than in his shuttle, why hasn't he set up his equipment to monitor the shuttle's systems? I mean we have wi-fi now...
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Old September 2 2012, 03:02 PM   #514
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Of course, it's possible Scotty simply hadn't gotten around to checking his messages yet. He was asleep in his lab when they found him, and by the looks of the place, he spent his time tinkering with and dismantling things rather than listening in on galactic chatter.
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Old September 2 2012, 04:37 PM   #515
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Of course, it's possible Scotty simply hadn't gotten around to checking his messages yet. He was asleep in his lab when they found him, and by the looks of the place, he spent his time tinkering with and dismantling things rather than listening in on galactic chatter.
But it's not galactic chatter - it's an emergency distress beacon. It stretches credibility further when you consider how long Kirk's been on the planet when he arrives at the outpost.

This is something that does chime in with the comics too. NuScotty is a fantastic engineer but he's a terrible, terrible officer. Star Trek always seems to think your best engineer should be in charge even though chief engineers spend a large chunk of their time supervising underlings and dealing with admin. Your talented engineers can be your petty officers and specialist technicians. Officers need to know how to follow protocols, including quarantine and emergency protocols. In the same way that I thought Kirk should have been promoted to work under a more experienced captain before taking command of a ship, all the evidence I've seen so far is that somebody else should be in charge of engineering! Scotty may be a genius but he's also a dumb a**.
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Old September 2 2012, 04:57 PM   #516
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Pauln6 wrote:
But it's not galactic chatter - it's an emergency distress beacon. It stretches credibility further when you consider how long Kirk's been on the planet when he arrives at the outpost.
A planetwide evacuation signal. And Scotty was on *another* planet. And asleep.

And how long was Kirk there for? A matter of hours. 6? 8?
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Old September 2 2012, 05:17 PM   #517
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote:
But it's not galactic chatter - it's an emergency distress beacon. It stretches credibility further when you consider how long Kirk's been on the planet when he arrives at the outpost.
A planetwide evacuation signal. And Scotty was on *another* planet. And asleep.

And how long was Kirk there for? A matter of hours. 6? 8?
Sorry, I meant the distress signal from the life pod. Although it is arguable that he should have picked up the Vulcan distress call too, I'd let that one slide, since he would not think there would be much that he can do and seismic activity may not register as a major emergency from his perspective.

I think it would take maybe 8 hours to cross rough terrain in deep snow to reach the outpost (possibly a longer if you compare mileage with sleds for arctic expeditions) but he and Spock also seem to spend the night in the cave so it's probably much longer. And lets not forget, if you use a lifepod you're probably in trouble. Scotty was essentially the ambulance for Kirk's 911 call - 8 hours is plenty of time for a wounded man to bleed to death.
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Old September 2 2012, 07:21 PM   #518
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I think it would take maybe 8 hours to cross rough terrain in deep snow to reach the outpost (possibly a longer if you compare mileage with sleds for arctic expeditions)
Considering Nero had just arrived at Earth when the Enterprise had just caught up to the Narada after flying towards the laurentian system and then turning back to earth after Kirk got back on board they didn't seem to be on Delta Vega long.

but he and Spock also seem to spend the night in the cave so it's probably much longer.
Considering the ticking clock I doubt that.
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Old September 2 2012, 07:35 PM   #519
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
I think it would take maybe 8 hours to cross rough terrain in deep snow to reach the outpost (possibly a longer if you compare mileage with sleds for arctic expeditions)
Considering Nero had just arrived at Earth when the Enterprise had just caught up to the Narada after flying towards the laurentian system and then turning back to earth after Kirk got back on board they didn't seem to be on Delta Vega long.

but he and Spock also seem to spend the night in the cave so it's probably much longer.
Considering the ticking clock I doubt that.
Yeah the timings are a bit vague. We don't know how long Kirk was unconscious, we know the distance to the base but not exactly how long it would take someone to walk (although apparently walking long distances in heavy snow takes a lot longer than you think), and while it's clear that Kirk and Spock chat for quite some time, we don't know how long, and we don't know how cold the planet get when the sun goes down or when the sun goes down.

Even assuming the minimum timings it must be at least 6 hours during daylight. Scotty should have responded long before.

The time issue regarding Nero and the Enterprise arriving at Earth is another timeline that is a bit fudged up. The Enterprise is travelling away from the Earth for several (say 6+) hours at less than warp 4 but Nero's 24th century ship is heading straight to Earth. Why would Nero travel at such a slow speed? He want's the security pre-fix codes from Pike, which implies he has no cloaking device (it isn't clear why he was able to blast Vulcan to smithereens without security codes but he might have taken Vulcan prisoners, later blown up by Kirk to get this information). However, since Pike has been taken prisoner, surely Starfleet would change its codes because presumably somebody (Spock or Scotty or Keenser?) would have thought to warn Starfleet Command of Pike's capture? Since every shuttle has a long distance communications system, it becomes hard to see in what way travelling slowly to Earth would help Nero. alternatively, assuming that every shuttles communications are also down, a trip to the nearest communications array would be the priority.
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Old September 8 2012, 06:01 PM   #520
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Just bought the movie adaptation. Six issues long, which re-enforces my view that 3 issues per story would be the right length. Reading them tomorrow at Cheddar Gorge!
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Old September 9 2012, 12:29 PM   #521
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Just bought the movie adaptation. Six issues long
But that was spinning out the adaptation (with bonus scenes) to maximise a guaranteed best seller, cashing in on the successes of "Countdown", "Nero" and "Spock Reflections".

which re-enforces my view that 3 issues per story would be the right length.
Not too sure if these figures tally with IDW sales, but I have been doing a course in Creative Writing and the lecturer mentioned the rule-of-thumb financial realities behind the current trend with trilogies to tell a story arc. A best selling trilogy can certainly hold (or increase) its audience, but a regular or mediocre trilogy will probably sell just two-thirds of Volume 1's sales for Volume 2, and two-thirds of Volume 2's sales for Volume 3.

If IDW stays with duologies, chances are the sales will reset every second issue instead of following the law of diminishing returns.
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Old September 9 2012, 02:21 PM   #522
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Yes, I think balancing storytelling against marketing common sense is an issue. I enjoyed the movie adaptation. The pace was good, although the fight scenes were a bit bland, and it evoked the characters really well. Scotty came across as less of a buffoon but that might be my brain subconsciously editing him to be more like I want him to be - lol.

I also read the first four stores again and, while I'd prefer a bit more depth, they do flow very well, get to the heart of the (basic) stories, and entertain. Overall, there's a lot to enjoy here and they series is shaping up quite well.
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Old September 25 2012, 02:26 AM   #523
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

What, no one has "The Redshirt's Tale" yet?
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Old September 25 2012, 03:01 AM   #524
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
What, no one has "The Redshirt's Tale" yet?
I just got it and read it, but I didn't have much to say besides "I liked it!" and other obvious AOL-worthy comments. But what the heck...



Being an old-school comic book reader (I started reading when Marvel was touting "Still only 35¢!") I'm still very fond of done-in-one stories, and this one did not disappoint.
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Old September 25 2012, 06:19 AM   #525
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Re: NEW ONGOING STAR TREK SERIES FROM IDW!!!

Fer wrote: View Post

Being an old-school comic book reader (I started reading when Marvel was touting "Still only 35¢!") I'm still very fond of done-in-one stories, and this one did not disappoint.
A longer story with lots of fun action or a complex plot is great, but if someone can tell a good story in one issue, I say bring that on too.
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