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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 3 2014, 10:32 PM   #16
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

I'm glad he didn't change too much in the 'Soft and mushy' direction, at least to people other than Kira. In too many long running shows, every character starts out as different and interesting, then over the seasons all the characters get dragged toward the center. They treat the character's starting idiosyncracies as personality disorders that need to be cured instead of just things that make them who they are.

Shows like Dexter are the biggest perpetrators of this, where every non-murderer character who spent more than one year on the show turned into a bland 'nice helpful person'. Debb's neuroses, Laguerta's obsessive politicking, all gone by the end of season two. DS9, thankfully, was generally not too guilty of this.

Character development should start somewhere different and interesting then evolve naturally to somewhere else different and interesting, instead of just being 'Subtractive development' of all the character's rough edges.
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Old May 4 2014, 11:39 AM   #17
2takesfrakes
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

Women love sexual experimentation, that's true, so I could accept Kira being curious as to what it might be like to make it with a Shape Shifter. But to see that graduate into a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship was absurd and unbelievable, to me. I really felt that they were pushing the "reality" of the series by introducing this bizarre "slash" romance, just for shits and gigles, apparently. It made the Worf/Troi romance seem like perfect sense ...
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Old May 4 2014, 04:40 PM   #18
DonIago
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

I don't know where to begin...
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Old May 6 2014, 02:35 AM   #19
2takesfrakes
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

A part of me wants to say it must've been love, because Odo's so ugly. That head. And that voice! How could Kira actually lust after any of that, though? And I am hesitant to ask how a man made of orange JELL-O orgasms and ... stuff. I would definitely be afraid to get with Kira after being with him. What if she still has lingering traces of him on her person? Why this "relationship" even had to be explored, I don't know. I wish I did ... but I don't.
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Old May 7 2014, 01:39 PM   #20
mendelin
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
A part of me wants to say it must've been love, because Odo's so ugly. That head. And that voice! How could Kira actually lust after any of that, though? And I am hesitant to ask how a man made of orange JELL-O orgasms and ... stuff. I would definitely be afraid to get with Kira after being with him. What if she still has lingering traces of him on her person? Why this "relationship" even had to be explored, I don't know. I wish I did ... but I don't.
Let me guess... Provocation! OK, you catched me! Let's start.

The Beauty and the Beast. An old, good story. What is in the first place: physical attractiveness or beauty of soul/mind?

Beatiful person (like Merilin Monroe ) will say "Hey, it's obvious. Beauty, perfect body. Only such things deserved your attention and love".
Other person (like Stephen Hawking ) will say "Hey, dude, it doesn't matter. Love is not a field of science, there are no proven formulas, it's magic".

The truth is, that there are no rules, except only one: no indifference. Love can start from any feeling: interest, sympathy, hatred, distaste (you may continue the list), but love is impossible, if people are indifferent to each other.
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Old May 7 2014, 01:59 PM   #21
2takesfrakes
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

"Beauty & the Beast" is most apt, indeed!

>>SNORT!!!<<

I'm sure there are fans of the Odo/Kira pairing, but STAR TREK has never done romances very well. For example, in DS9's first episode, when Sisko was shown to be so hurt over Jennifer's death, that was done very well. But everything they were shown as saying to eachother in life was shite writing. The actress playing Jennifer was hot and seemed sweet, but she had problems with her delivery, most of the time, because of the aweful dialogue she was given as Jennifer (although her stilted acting worked as the alien).

It made me wonder sometimes, why they even attempted longer-term romances in STAR TREK. Even O'Brien and Keiko's marriage had a lot of arguing, it seemed like, just to avoid having to write about relationship stuff. "I hate this station Miles!" Don't get me wrong, I love Keiko, I really do. But her marriage could've benefitted from better writing. Interestingly enough, that effort went into Miles' bromance with Bashir, instead ...
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Old May 8 2014, 08:18 PM   #22
dub
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

You can be a huge fan of Odo/Kira.

You can be a huge fan of Jonathan Frakes.

You cannot be both.
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Old May 8 2014, 10:02 PM   #23
Peach Wookiee
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

I liked Odo/Kira myself.
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Old May 8 2014, 10:29 PM   #24
2takesfrakes
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

dub wrote: View Post
You can be a huge fan of Odo/Kira.

You can be a huge fan of Jonathan Frakes.

You cannot be both.
Quite so.

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Old May 11 2014, 02:09 AM   #25
GalaxyX
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

I agree with 2takesfrakes.

The entire relationship has zero chemistry. I'm still not sure what convinced Kira that Odo was the right guy for her. I'm not sure why Odo was so infatuated with her.

The whole thing does play along into the "Beauty and the Beast" archetypes (with the "Ugly" man wins over the "Beautiful" woman's love)

That relationship as well as Worf's relationship to Jadzia (another relationship with zero chemistry) seemed to me simple nerd fantasies seeping into the writing of the show (Don't forget about Leeta and Rom either).

Funny how there's never an ugly woman who wins the love of a handsome man.
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Old May 11 2014, 05:07 AM   #26
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

I guess chemistry's in the eye of the beholder.
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Old May 11 2014, 12:59 PM   #27
2takesfrakes
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

I'll say one thing for Odo: he was the only boyfriend Kira had with any personality - that's for sure!
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Old May 11 2014, 02:32 PM   #28
mendelin
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
I agree with 2takesfrakes.

The entire relationship has zero chemistry. I'm still not sure what convinced Kira that Odo was the right guy for her. I'm not sure why Odo was so infatuated with her.
First of all, as for me, I'm a big fan of Kira&Odo relationships. I think, those relationships were a true masterpiece of all Star Trek love/romance/friendship stories.

Why Odo was so infatuated with her? Odo was an outsider from the first time of his discovery. He was stranger, liquid "nothing" and "nobody". He prefered stay seperate from Bajor people and Cardassians. That's why cardassians give him job as a policeman.

Kira was only one (at first time), who tried to accept him as a person. It was important for him, to be accepted. That's why he tried to protect Quark. Quark was also a stranger on Cardassian station in Bajor space. He tried to stay (intuitively) close to Odo, and Odo felt it.

What convinced Kira that Odo was the right guy for her? Nothing. Odo wasn't right guy for her. It was never showed, that Kira was in love with Odo. Episode "His Way" was like a game. Something like "oh, OK, let's try to play this romance game". According to "His Way" Kira simply accepted the fact of Odo's love. Of course, she has warm feelings to him, he is her best friend and so on, but there was no passion from her side. Only acceptance, that was necessary to Odo.

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
The whole thing does play along into the "Beauty and the Beast" archetypes (with the "Ugly" man wins over the "Beautiful" woman's love)
I can't agree, that Odo was ugly. Odo was quite handsome, he has some fangirls on the station And he was quite well for Arissa.

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
That relationship as well as Worf's relationship to Jadzia (another relationship with zero chemistry) seemed to me simple nerd fantasies seeping into the writing of the show (Don't forget about Leeta and Rom either).
Yeah. Worf is Klingon, Rom is Ferengi, and they are quite handsome among their race. Why Trill can't be in love with handsome Klingon?


GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Funny how there's never an ugly woman who wins the love of a handsome man.
It's not funny, by the way, it's tragedy! Have you ever seen fat woman, which is the hero of romance?
Why fat woman can't be heroic, romantic, desirable for attractive men? So, there is a term "rac-ism", "sex-ism", and there should be the term "fat-ism"!
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Old May 11 2014, 03:57 PM   #29
DonIago
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

With regards to your last paragraph, I recommend "Hairspray".
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Old May 12 2014, 06:00 PM   #30
Yanks
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Re: Odo-Kira Relationship

DonIago wrote: View Post
I guess chemistry's in the eye of the beholder.
I would agree with this thought.

I'm one that thought Odo's relationship with Kira was fine.

I had a harder time when he went so out of "Odo" when he was being drawn to "the link".

... and then everyone just thought that was OK.
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