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Old June 9 2011, 08:34 AM   #1
Yevetha
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Better start without the Caretaker...

Wouldnt had been better if they woud had goten lost because some other reason?

Space anomaly?

Ancient artifact capable of teleportation?

Stargate that closes after they use it...

Soo on..
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Old June 9 2011, 08:40 AM   #2
BennettStar
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

Yevetha wrote: View Post
Wouldnt had been better if they woud had goten lost because some other reason?

Space anomaly?

Ancient artifact capable of teleportation?

Stargate that closes after they use it...

Soo on..

I have an idea.

A space anomaly created by an ancient artifact capable of teleportation... almost like a subspace gateway... in the Badlands transports Voyager into the Delta Quadrant. The entity responsible is known as the Caregiver.
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Old June 9 2011, 08:58 AM   #3
Art Vandelay
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

Yevetha wrote: View Post
Wouldnt had been better if they woud had goten lost because some other reason?

Space anomaly?

Ancient artifact capable of teleportation?

Stargate that closes after they use it...

Soo on..
I don't quite understand your question here. Would what have been better? The series as a whole?


The Caretaker business was just the setup, and apart from that, it did the following:
  • launch the Kazon conflict (which could have been achieved differently)
  • inspire the second-season episode Cold Fire
  • generate a throwaway reference in Equinox, Part I
So if that's what you're getting at - no, the series wouldn't have been better. Or worse.
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Old June 9 2011, 09:27 AM   #4
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

I kinda like that they were brought to the DQ for a reason.

The wormhole gimmick was already being used by DS9. They're not gonna launch two Trek series' launch with the same plot device.

Besides, the Caretaker's array is an ancient artifact capable of teleportation.
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Old June 9 2011, 01:58 PM   #5
Anwar
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

I just would have had the Caretaker's own power be what brought them to the DQ, and when he died so did their only way back.

It would eliminate the whole "Janeway's a moron for not using timed explosives!" thing.

Alternatively, the Caretaker would be the first villain of the show and was the ruler of the area of space they're in. The Ocampa world is his personal Experimentation Planet where he puts all the people he's kidnapped for centuries, he's kept the surrounding species for 20,000 LY at a less-developed level to prevent rebellion.

The Kazon are his chosen "children", his "Holy Warriors" who enforce his will and fight "Heretics" opposed to him.

When he captures Janeway, it was her, Paris and Tuvok on a prison transport bringing in Chakotay and co (who are just random criminals, not Maquis) and Janeway has a cold.

Her cold infects the Caretaker with AQ bacteria and kills him (he was old and crazy anyways), and he sets the Array to blow. So Janeway and co team up with Neelix, a renegade Kazon Heretic, and evacuate everyone onto the massive ancient starship the Caretaker used to come to our Galaxy in the first place. It can house thousands and is totally self-sufficient, and it has an advanced AI that scans Janeway's form to make a human hologram (Robert Picardo) for itself.

They then travel around in this super-ship figuring out what to do next.
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Old June 9 2011, 09:12 PM   #6
exodus
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

Anwar wrote: View Post
I just would have had the Caretaker's own power be what brought them to the DQ, and when he died so did their only way back.

It would eliminate the whole "Janeway's a moron for not using timed explosives!" thing.

Alternatively, the Caretaker would be the first villain of the show and was the ruler of the area of space they're in. The Ocampa world is his personal Experimentation Planet where he puts all the people he's kidnapped for centuries, he's kept the surrounding species for 20,000 LY at a less-developed level to prevent rebellion.

The Kazon are his chosen "children", his "Holy Warriors" who enforce his will and fight "Heretics" opposed to him.

When he captures Janeway, it was her, Paris and Tuvok on a prison transport bringing in Chakotay and co (who are just random criminals, not Maquis) and Janeway has a cold.

Her cold infects the Caretaker with AQ bacteria and kills him (he was old and crazy anyways), and he sets the Array to blow. So Janeway and co team up with Neelix, a renegade Kazon Heretic, and evacuate everyone onto the massive ancient starship the Caretaker used to come to our Galaxy in the first place. It can house thousands and is totally self-sufficient, and it has an advanced AI that scans Janeway's form to make a human hologram (Robert Picardo) for itself.

They then travel around in this super-ship figuring out what to do next.
I love Neelix & Voyager the ship to change those parts of the show. I'd keep Neelix as a refugee and keep him bumbling but not because he's a misfit but because he's crazy. However, underneath it all he's a mad genius.(He's Voyager's wild card) If anything, I'd make Chakotay the Kazon Heretic and join his followers with Janeways crew. The Kazon crew would be Voyager's "Elite Force", like the Borg we saw in "Living Witness". This brings up Tuvok's character more because he now has an ongoing challenge to make Kazon conform to Starship rules. I think it keeps a balance of drama & humor.

Other than that, I really like everything else so much better.
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Old June 9 2011, 11:46 PM   #7
froot
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
Yevetha wrote: View Post
Wouldnt had been better if they woud had goten lost because some other reason?

Space anomaly?

Ancient artifact capable of teleportation?

Stargate that closes after they use it...

Soo on..
I don't quite understand your question here. Would what have been better? The series as a whole?


The Caretaker business was just the setup, and apart from that, it did the following:
  • launch the Kazon conflict (which could have been achieved differently)
  • inspire the second-season episode Cold Fire
  • generate a throwaway reference in Equinox, Part I
So if that's what you're getting at - no, the series wouldn't have been better. Or worse.
  • Basically informs the entire plot of "Night"
  • Basically informs the entire plot of "Voyager Conspiracy"
  • Basically informs the entire plot of "Shattered"
  • "Endgame" bookends the series with the same idea
  • Partially gives Seska/Jonas the impetus to defect
I could keep going, but changing the Caretaker dilemma would change quite a lot.

Having no dilemma at the beginning would have been pretty bland, IMO. "Oops, we fell into a wormhole."
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Old June 10 2011, 04:40 AM   #8
Anwar
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

It worked for Farscape.
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Old June 10 2011, 06:57 AM   #9
Guy Gardener
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

(been waiting for this to pop again Anwar)

Janeway and Crichton are different sorts of heroic Star Ship Captain characters.

Janeway is Buggs Bunny. Always in control. Cool and sophisticated. The humour is in her outwitting her dimwitted opponents. She's always on top.

John Crichton is Daffy Duck. Always out of control. Desperate and Uncoth. the humour is in the world exploding under his feet no matter how hard he tries. He's always on his ass.

Same species, different genus.

(This contrast also covers Daredevil vs. Spider-Man if that's easier to draw a parallel against?.)
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Old June 10 2011, 01:50 PM   #10
Anwar
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

Also, in Farscape what made the character relationships work was the utter LACK of order and chain of command. Crichton wasn't Captain, he and the others were a leaderless gang who figured they were better together than apart.

And the ship didn't need a captain or a crew, which also made things easier.

If VOY was an automated alien ship, and Janeway wasn't their leader so much as one of the smarter folks trying to get the ship to work and solve their problems, then it's less sexist having her argue all the time with big strong men.
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Old June 10 2011, 05:53 PM   #11
Guy Gardener
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

You're describing the power struggle between Rush and Young in Stargate Universe.
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Old June 10 2011, 06:28 PM   #12
Anwar
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

SGU was hardly original when IT did it too, which is why it got cancelled.

It goes back to Blakes' 7, really. It's Farscape's main inspiration.

Mine would be a cross between Andromeda and Farscape, with it being a sentient ship with a hologram and the crew are really just inhabitants and not a real trained crew (except for Janeway and Tuvok).
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Old June 10 2011, 08:38 PM   #13
Art Vandelay
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Re: Better start without the Caretaker...

froot wrote: View Post
  • Basically informs the entire plot of "Night"
  • Basically informs the entire plot of "Voyager Conspiracy"
  • Basically informs the entire plot of "Shattered"
  • "Endgame" bookends the series with the same idea
  • Partially gives Seska/Jonas the impetus to defect
I could keep going, but changing the Caretaker dilemma would change quite a lot.

Having no dilemma at the beginning would have been pretty bland, IMO. "Oops, we fell into a wormhole."
Wait a second. The OP asked what would have been different if the setup had been something other than the Caretaker. That does not exclude the possibility that Janeway still made a conscious choice to strand the crew to benefit the greater good.

All of the episodes/things you mention above would have worked quite well, had the cause of Janeway stranding her crew had not been the Caretaker.

They would not work without the dilemma, but I never stated that.

Come to think of it, both The Voyager Conspiracy and Shattered could easily have been made to work even without the dilemma.
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