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View Poll Results: How Much Did You Enjoy X-MEN: FIRST CLASS?
A+ (Great Movie!) 73 35.61%
A (Entertained a lot!) 93 45.37%
B (Was okay, not bad) 30 14.63%
C (Below expectations) 6 2.93%
D (Very bad) 2 0.98%
F (Intolerable, want money back) 1 0.49%
Voters: 205. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 6 2011, 08:02 AM   #946
Admiral_Young
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

^ That's a good point. I like to think the problems of The Last Stand were that it happened to be passed from director to director and the script had multiple story lines that were introduced by Penn or Kinberg that weren't in Singer, Dougherty and Harris's original script...i.e. they added stories in there. I think Penn states that they added the mutant cure story line and of course Dr. Rao from Joss's first Astonishing run. I could be misremembering that. It's been a while since I listened to the Last Stand audio commentary. I tend to avoid it now. Otherwise I guess what I'm trying to get at was that it suffered from not having a clear direction and focus and tried to incorporate elements from previous incarnations of it.
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Old November 6 2011, 06:24 PM   #947
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

One thing I really loathe about this film is that they introduced a new mutant... called "Angel".



Sorry, folks, but in the X-verse "Angel" is a white boy named Warren Worthington. Come up with a new name for crying out loud.

I mean, anachronism aside, how the hell was this character not named "Fly Girl"? Do the Wayanses have a copyright on that or something?
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Old November 6 2011, 06:35 PM   #948
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Angel is her actual name, not her codename. And since she appeared in the comics long before First Class had even been conceived, she was fair game.
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Old November 6 2011, 06:41 PM   #949
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

The film treats it as both. It doesn't mention her comic codename.
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Old November 6 2011, 06:51 PM   #950
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

That's because she didn't have a codename when she still had her insect powers. Angel was depowered during the House of M event, and now she wears some sort of suit that gives her new powers (bear with me here, I haven't read any of the recent X-Men comics ). Her codename now is Tempest.
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Old November 6 2011, 06:59 PM   #951
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Set Harth wrote: View Post
The film treats it as both. It doesn't mention her comic codename.
Since the "real" Angel hasn't entered the scene yet there really is no problem here.
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Old November 6 2011, 10:05 PM   #952
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Yeah Angel Salvadore was created in New X-Men by Grant Morrison to be a sort of anti-Jubliee for Logan. As others pointed out she had no codename and only used her first name, and has only recently gone by the name Tempest.
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Old November 7 2011, 02:36 AM   #953
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Given that Kinberg was one of the producers of First Class, it is likely he had creative input on the film and have been working with Singer/Vaughn in developing FC2's story. Given the stormy production of TLS, the problems of that movie were likely already in motion before the pen hit paper.
Kinberg was one of the producers on First Class, and rumors circulated that he polished the script during principal photography, however Vaughn and Goldman's rewrites had a very significant impact on the story and the screenplay. Even though Kinberg claims he had no story input with First Class and turned down an offer to write the script.

The problems with X-Men: The Last Stand, from what I could ascertain, mostly fell under the responsibility of the creative team than it had to due with anything else. Yes, the production schedule was rushed, but Bryan Singer experienced similar problems with the first two films. With the first X-Men film, he encountered budget cuts, constant re-writes, casting problems, and had a total of six months cut from his production schedule. Even with the short running time and all of these problems combined, X-Men still turned out decently well (and is still commonly regarded as a good movie overall).

With X-Men: The Last Stand, I think a lot of the creative problems had to due with writers Simon Kinberg, Zak Pen and director Brett Ratner. For example, when Matthew Vaughn was still attached as the director, the film was supposedly going to run over two hours. When Ratner came on-board, he made several cuts to the story, including cutting out several set-pieces. Such as Magneto and the Brotherhood storming Alcatraz Island and freeing several mutant prisoners. In the film, that sequence had been re-positioned as the convoy sequence where Magneto frees Juggernaut, Multiple Man, etc. Ratner essentially took the sequence of moving the Golden Gate Bridge and storming Alcatraz and made that the climax of the film; in the original story, the ending was going to take place in Washington, D.C. but Ratner felt like he didn't have the expertise to film that ending, so he cut it (proof of this can be found on the film's DVD, which includes an early, unreleased teaser trailer showcasing the X-Jet arriving in Washington, D.C.; Ratner also talks about this in the commentary).

Several other elements were supposedly cut from the screenplay, and in an interview, Ratner explains that he gets bored very easily, and wanted the film to have a very brisk pace, which is why there are so many characters and storylines in the alloted running time. Comparatively speaking, X-Men and X-Men: The Last Stand have similar running times, but I find X-Men to be the superior film. I don't think rushed production schedules or short running times account for any lack of quality regarding The Last Stand; I just think the film had inferior storytellers, at least in comparison to Singer and his creative team.

I think that's evident even with the studio, who offered Singer both Wolverine movies and enticed him to return for X-Men: First Class. On the other hand, Brett Ratner hasn't received such offers.
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Old November 7 2011, 03:15 AM   #954
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

I don't understand why she's called angel. Her wings aren't angelic and she spits acidic/fiery/explody loogies. How is that Angelic? Wouldn't it make more sense if her name was "Wasp" or "Dragonfly" or something?
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Old November 7 2011, 05:11 AM   #955
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

^Like others have said, she's called Angel because it's her actual name. I think I would have ran away if I grew up named Dragonfly or Wasp.
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Old November 7 2011, 05:52 AM   #956
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Reading is just too hard.
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Old November 7 2011, 06:16 AM   #957
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Broccoli wrote: View Post
Given that Kinberg was one of the producers of First Class, it is likely he had creative input on the film and have been working with Singer/Vaughn in developing FC2's story. Given the stormy production of TLS, the problems of that movie were likely already in motion before the pen hit paper.
Kinberg was [snip]
The impression I always got with TLS was that it had tons studio interference from the get go. While I don't have the irrational hate for Ratner the way the rest of the internet does, he does come off as a very "sure, whatever" kind of guy, which is probably why studios probably love to work with him (ie. he's easy to work with). Anyway, studio interference clearly had a hand in how the movie should go (in terms of story) as opposed to the previous X-Men movies. While those films (particularly the first one) had limitations in the production, the story was, from what I could tell, largely left alone.

I think that's evident even with the studio, who offered Singer both Wolverine movies and enticed him to return for X-Men: First Class. On the other hand, Brett Ratner hasn't received such offers.
Which has nothing to do with anything. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to realize that Fox's attempts to lure Singer back was an attempt to kiss and make-up after the X3 breakdown that caused Singer to drop out of the film.
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Old November 7 2011, 08:12 PM   #958
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I don't understand why she's called angel. Her wings aren't angelic and she spits acidic/fiery/explody loogies. How is that Angelic? Wouldn't it make more sense if her name was "Wasp" or "Dragonfly" or something?
She was born with that name. Angel Salvadore.
Just as Wolverine was born James.
And Nightcrawler was born Kurt.

It's NOT a codename. Just like Jean isn't a codename, sometimes they just don't use them. Her codename, when she eventually gets one, will be Tempest.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see I was beaten to the punch. I didn't get that you were only joking.

Last edited by M'rk, son of Mogh; November 7 2011 at 08:15 PM. Reason: beaten to the punch
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Old November 8 2011, 05:10 AM   #959
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Also I think they were trying to play around with the fact that Angel is in fact the opposite of an Angel in the sense that she's somewhat of a bad girl. Like I said above I think Morrison intended her to be be an anti-Jubliee character for Logan to mentor. Someone to get in his face and give him attitude.
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Old November 17 2011, 07:49 AM   #960
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Re: X-MEN: FIRST CLASS - Grading+Discussion **SPOILERS!**

Wow, sequel writing prospects and the talk is still about Angel? Eh, really hope she isn't coming back for Part 2, that's all I have to say about that.

Not sure how I feel about the writer doing the draft, but maybe Vaughn and Goldman will get to add their spin and have some dang time for this turnaround.

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