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Old May 21 2011, 06:11 AM   #16
HAL.9000
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Nerdgasm wrote: View Post
Regardless of the existence of souls, or flying spaghetti monsters, or any other supernatural force - a transporter basically amounts to a 3D fax machine.

It scans an object, converts it into a digital, electrical signal composed of instructions on how to build "you", and the object gets printed on the receiving side. Sending blueprints of a human is a lot more probable than breaking apart your individual atoms, converting them all to energy, and then reconverting/rebuilding you the exact same atoms in the exact same locations.

Most likely you would be discarded and a new being with your memories and attributes would be created. If it were you, you'd simply be killed while another entity carried on your existence. To the outside world and to the most recent copy of you, this shedding of lives would cause no perceptible changes.
I cant think of a way to test for this though. That is to say whether the new teleported you is the real you or just a perfect copy of the real you while the real you dies and blinks out of existence. It boggles the mind.
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Old May 21 2011, 06:23 AM   #17
Nerdgasm
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

It is quite the conundrum. There's bound to be some way to determine whether or not the being is transported and not just an image... but this really seems like an Asimov style puzzle and it's waay too late for my brain to figure it out lol.
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Old May 21 2011, 06:34 AM   #18
Paradon
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Someone scrambling your molecules and transport it to another location is what transporter is all about. But what I'm worried about is if all your memories are still there.
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Old May 21 2011, 06:38 AM   #19
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Nerdgasm wrote: View Post
There's bound to be some way to determine whether or not the being is transported and not just an image...
Of course there is.
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Old May 21 2011, 07:52 AM   #20
T'Girl
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Nerdgasm wrote: View Post
Most likely you would be discarded and a new being with your memories and attributes would be created.
So instead of sending the personal me to the destination, you believe that at the end of a twenty thousand mile long transporter beam a copy is constructed from scratch in apparently only a few seconds.

Yeah, that make so much more sense.

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Old May 21 2011, 08:21 AM   #21
Paradon
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Doesn't it?
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Old May 21 2011, 02:15 PM   #22
Navaros
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Transporters transport the real you. They do not make a copy and then create a new you. There is no part of you that "dies" during the transporting process.

Claims that you "die" and/or a "new you" is created are just wishful thinking on the part of those who want Trek to conform to their atheistic belief system. However, transportation as presented in the shows/films in no way supports those beliefs. Atheistic Trek fans are just making that stuff up.
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Old May 21 2011, 02:58 PM   #23
HAL.9000
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Navaros wrote: View Post
Transporters transport the real you. They do not make a copy and then create a new you. There is no part of you that "dies" during the transporting process.

Claims that you "die" and/or a "new you" is created are just wishful thinking on the part of those who want Trek to conform to their atheistic belief system. However, transportation as presented in the shows/films in no way supports those beliefs. Atheistic Trek fans are just making that stuff up.
Naturally anything is possible in science fiction. I am approaching this topic though as if this technology was readily available today. That is the jist of the conversations here.

Personally I think it is impossible. Once matter is transformed into energy, even if you could transform it back to matter, the resulting matter will never be the exact same even if you were able to align all the atoms exactly alike because all the subatomic particles are just new versions of what was created from this energy mix.

To clarify, energy is energy. You could no more distingish the energy from Kirk's atoms than you could the energy from Spock's atoms. Perhaps there is a difference in quantity of energy produced, but that is all.

I suspect that in order for transporter technology to work, the subject is not transformed into energy at all but is somehow phased into another dimension where his matter is moved and would then reappear in another location once returned into our dimension.

Instead of transporter, it would an an artificial wormhole elevator of sorts which sounds more plausible.
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Old May 21 2011, 02:59 PM   #24
JarodRussell
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

It's kinda pointless to discuss this. Beaming is impossible, so the issue is non-existant. And in Trek it's possible and you simply are the same person after beaming. So again no issue.
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Old May 21 2011, 03:02 PM   #25
HAL.9000
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
It's kinda pointless to discuss this. Beaming is impossible, so the issue is non-existant. And in Trek it's possible and you simply are the same person after beaming. So again no issue.
Actually no. I read an article sometime ago on how scientists succeeded in transporting a single photon to another location. I cant seem to find the article online though.

If anyone finds it, please link.
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Old May 21 2011, 03:13 PM   #26
JarodRussell
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
It's kinda pointless to discuss this. Beaming is impossible, so the issue is non-existant. And in Trek it's possible and you simply are the same person after beaming. So again no issue.
Actually no. I read an article sometime ago on how scientists succeeded in transporting a single photon to another location. I cant seem to find the article online though.

If anyone finds it, please link.
They also succeed in creating antiprotons. That doesn't mean they can one day create the antimatter version of you.
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Old May 21 2011, 03:19 PM   #27
HAL.9000
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
It's kinda pointless to discuss this. Beaming is impossible, so the issue is non-existant. And in Trek it's possible and you simply are the same person after beaming. So again no issue.
Actually no. I read an article sometime ago on how scientists succeeded in transporting a single photon to another location. I cant seem to find the article online though.

If anyone finds it, please link.
They also succeed in creating antiprotons. That doesn't mean they can one day create the antimatter version of you.
Antimatter is the fuel source of the future. It packs a punch and takes very little space. Theoretically it is possible to create the anti-matter version of any object. Keeping it from annihilation in our normal-matter universe is the trick though.

Considering its energy potential, I believe anti-matter production and containment will be researched throughly for the remainder of our space-faring years.

Recently another record was broken in containing antimatter (or an antiparticle) in a magnetic field for some period of time.

Another link I need to lookup.
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Old May 21 2011, 05:24 PM   #28
xortex
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Here's that transporter thread again. It always pops it's head in here. It was shown on Trek that you can live in a pattern buffer beam disassembled for a while.
I wonder if the whole Trek universe started with that first transport - you know, that guy from Enterprise who disappeared or whatever. There be Klingons here type of thing fracturing the space time continuum with an alternate reality as in Mirror, Mirror.
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Old May 21 2011, 08:53 PM   #29
Sean Aaron
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Navaros wrote: View Post
Claims that you "die" and/or a "new you" is created are just wishful thinking on the part of those who want Trek to conform to their atheistic belief system. However, transportation as presented in the shows/films in no way supports those beliefs. Atheistic Trek fans are just making that stuff up.
I fail to see what that could possibly have to do with atheism. The question is whether you are transmitted or replicated - I think people who believe in God or don't could have the same question as to what is actually happening, unless your equating atheism with a disbelief in the reality of Star Trek?
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Old May 21 2011, 09:43 PM   #30
YellowSubmarine
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Re: A philosophical question regarding transporter technology.

Thought experiment:
Situation 1: You're dematerialized and materialized somewhere else. Standard teleporter mode.
Situation 2: You're materialized somewhere else, but not dematerialized right away. Someone comes to the old you before the dematerialization to asks you which copy to be vapourized -- the new or the old one -- telling you that if you're dematerialized you'd go somewhere else. Which would you choose and do you really go somewhere else if you choose to be vapourized?

(Of course, the answer to the question is, yes, since the other person is you, you do go somewhere else, only the memory of the question gets erased and it's no different than erasing the memory of someone in Star Trek, but it's still an interesting experiment. Now the real question is, is erasing memory murder of the person that lived the moments that would be erased?)
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