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Old May 20 2011, 01:23 AM   #1
HAL.9000
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Location: Jupiter space
The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media...02/320x240.jpg vs http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media...03/320x240.jpg

In my book, Curtis played the best Saavik.

Alley may have had more sex appeal (she's nice on the eyes), but having her show emotion due to her mixed Vulcan/Romulan blood (although never mentioned in the movie) ruined it.

Furthermore, Alley has a distinctive speaking accent that reminded me of New York for some reason. I couldnt get past that when watching "Wrath of Khan."

Curtis played a Vulcan perfectly IMO.

Last edited by Misfit Toy; May 21 2011 at 10:02 PM.
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Old May 20 2011, 02:09 AM   #2
marksound
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

The best Saavik, IMO, was Valeris.
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Old May 20 2011, 02:18 AM   #3
HAL.9000
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
The best Saavik, IMO, was Valeris.
You are referring to your favorite female Vulcan perhaps, but Valeris was a completely different character.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/pho...90-575-720.jpg

Here are some interesting before/after shots of her:
http://www.themakeupgallery.info/fan...ul/valeris.htm

Last edited by Misfit Toy; May 21 2011 at 10:03 PM.
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Old May 20 2011, 02:40 AM   #4
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

Kirstie Alley, by miles.
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Old May 20 2011, 02:51 AM   #5
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media...02/320x240.jpg vs http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media...03/320x240.jpg

In my book, Curtis played the best Saavik.

Alley may have had more sex appeal (she's nice on the eyes), but having her show emotion due to her mixed Vulcan/Romulan blood (although never mentioned in the movie) ruined it.

Furthermore, Alley has a distinctive speaking accent that reminded me of New York for some reason. I couldnt get past that when watching "Wrath of Khan."

Curtis played a Vulcan perfectly IMO.
Finally. I was starting to think I was the only Star Trek fan alive (or dead, or not yet born) who preferred Curtis to Alley.

I do, however, disagree with you about their sex appeal. Alley WAS sexy, yes, but Curtis just had that little something that made her sexier.

Last edited by Misfit Toy; May 21 2011 at 10:04 PM.
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Old May 20 2011, 03:36 AM   #6
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

I'd have to say Alley, although I never had a problem with Curtis' performance. I think Alley was given a better bunch of stuff to do. Also, Alley had a certain "alien-esque" quality that I liked.

I do, however have a certain soft spot for Robin Curtis, since she was one of the very first Trek actors I ever met.
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Old May 20 2011, 04:13 AM   #7
Robert D. Robot
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
The best Saavik, IMO, was Valeris.
You are referring to your favorite female Vulcan perhaps, but Valeris was a completely different character.
Wasn't the original concept that the traitor in Star Trek VI was to be Saavik, but Gene R. protested that idea because Saavik had become a favorite to so many fans, which lead to the character being rewritten as Valeris? I think sensors may be detecting a sense of humor here....
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Old May 20 2011, 04:36 AM   #8
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

Robert D. Robot wrote: View Post
HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
The best Saavik, IMO, was Valeris.
You are referring to your favorite female Vulcan perhaps, but Valeris was a completely different character.
Wasn't the original concept that the traitor in Star Trek VI was to be Saavik, but Gene R. protested that idea because Saavik had become a favorite to so many fans, which lead to the character being rewritten as Valeris? I think sensors may be detecting a sense of humor here....
Saavik was the intended, yes. GR's protests were essentially worthless. No-one at the studio listened to him in any way beyond being polite and giving him a glorified thank you credit in the films. Meyer had some "interesting" things to say to Roddenberry at the time. And yes, I detect a sense of humour there too.
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Old May 20 2011, 05:27 AM   #9
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
Alley may have had more sex appeal (she's nice on the eyes), but having her show emotion due to her mixed Vulcan/Romulan blood (although never mentioned in the movie) ruined it.
Beyond just sex appeal, I thought that Alley made for a more interesting Vulcan than Curtis. Curtis portrayed a text book adult full Vulcan, Alley performance gave us something else, a younger (maybe barely out of adolescence) Vulcan, cocky and arrogant in the KM simulator, but nervous and near tongue-tied commanding the bridge watch when Kirk orders the training ship onto an actual mission. She openly flirts with Kirk in the turbolift scene and she openly crys during Spock's funeral.

Curtis on the other hand ... well, she was just a Vulcan.

Alley was comfortable in the role, she was loose, confident and passionate. Curtis was stiff.
Alley had a woman's body, Curtis had the body of a boy.
Alley informing Kirk of his sons's death would if come with sympathy. Curtis simply report the incident.
Returning to sex appeal. The pon farr scene in TSFS with Alley would of been "hot sweaty dirty sexy," with Curtis it was just awkward.

If Saavik had developed into a ongoing character Alley, not Curtis, would have been the ideal choice. Alley could have easily became a part of Kirk's regular command crew. She would have been a asset during both Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country. Watching Alley as Saavik play opposite Kim Cattrall as Valeris would have been a definite bonus. Alley demonstrated superior acting range over the course of her professional career. Not just comedy but also drama and action/adventure, lots of work. Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.



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Old May 20 2011, 05:33 AM   #10
HAL.9000
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

Some interesting info from wiki:

A significant character in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country was a young female Vulcan protege of Spock, who turned out to be working with the villains. In an early draft of the script, this was Saavik, in the hopes that Alley would return for the large role, using characters that had appeared in prior films (even in small parts) turning out to be significant players this time. Alley turned down the role, her price having risen too high for the film's budget, and instead the character of Valeris, played by Kim Cattrall, was created. The novelization of this film actually includes a sequence in which Valeris, newly appointed to the Enterprise, meets Saavik, but it is not known if such a scene was ever planned for the movie.
-wiki

This is an eye opener:
One of her (Kim Cattrall) best-known film roles is that of Lieutenant Valeris in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. Near the end of filming, Cattrall had a photographer shoot a roll of film on the Enterprise bridge set, in which she wore nothing but her Vulcan ears. After finding out about the unauthorized photo session, Leonard Nimoy had the film destroyed.
-wiki

At first I thought it was BS then I found this:

=link removed=
Which makes the wiki story sound plausible.

Apparently she's an exhibitionist.

Last edited by Misfit Toy; May 21 2011 at 10:09 PM. Reason: link to NSFW image
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Old May 20 2011, 06:08 AM   #11
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

Alley by several orders of magnitude.

It's hard to say how much of the blame to lay at Curtis' feet though, since her performance was informed by Nimoy's direction and I believe she was instructed to play the character as a full Vulcan, which seems like an obvious contradiction in light of Alley's portrayal.
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Old May 20 2011, 07:17 AM   #12
antiquityscion
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

I think Curtis's Savaak was more vulcan like. Kirstie Alley's Savaak was just Kirstie Alley with pointed ears. She was far too emotional to be believable as a vulcan. And Yeah, i know about the early scripts planning her to be half Romulan, but still.

Oddly, though, I liked Curtis as T'Paal better than her Savaak....
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/T%27Paa...solationist%29
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Old May 20 2011, 07:46 AM   #13
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

Greatly disappointed that Alley didn't continue with the character. Curtis performed adequately, and there was a distinct change in the character's portrayal as full-Vulcan in TSFS. Can't blame the actress for reading "David is dead" unemotionally when that is what she was clearly directed to do.

As for Saavik in TUC, her betrayal would have been much more of a surprise and have much more of an emotional impact. It would have also avoided some of the repetition of Valeris' introduction.
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Old May 20 2011, 07:57 AM   #14
Captrek
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
The best Saavik, IMO, was Valeris.
You are referring to your favorite female Vulcan perhaps, but Valeris was a completely different character.
So are the two Saaviks.
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Old May 20 2011, 12:15 PM   #15
Gov Kodos
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Re: The best Saavik: Kirstie Alley vs. Robin Curtis

T'Girl wrote: View Post
HAL.9000 wrote: View Post
Alley may have had more sex appeal (she's nice on the eyes), but having her show emotion due to her mixed Vulcan/Romulan blood (although never mentioned in the movie) ruined it.
Beyond just sex appeal, I thought that Alley made for a more interesting Vulcan than Curtis. Curtis portrayed a text book adult full Vulcan, Alley performance gave us something else, a younger (maybe barely out of adolescence) Vulcan, cocky and arrogant in the KM simulator, but nervous and near tongue-tied commanding the bridge watch when Kirk orders the training ship onto an actual mission. She openly flirts with Kirk in the turbolift scene and she openly crys during Spock's funeral.

Curtis on the other hand ... well, she was just a Vulcan.

Alley was comfortable in the role, she was loose, confident and passionate. Curtis was stiff.
Alley had a woman's body, Curtis had the body of a boy.
Alley informing Kirk of his sons's death would if come with sympathy. Curtis simply report the incident.
Returning to sex appeal. The pon farr scene in TSFS with Alley would of been "hot sweaty dirty sexy," with Curtis it was just awkward.

If Saavik had developed into a ongoing character Alley, not Curtis, would have been the ideal choice. Alley could have easily became a part of Kirk's regular command crew. She would have been a asset during both Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country. Watching Alley as Saavik play opposite Kim Cattrall as Valeris would have been a definite bonus. Alley demonstrated superior acting range over the course of her professional career. Not just comedy but also drama and action/adventure, lots of work. Curtis on the other hand has had a pretty thin career.



Kirk: "Spock, I'm about to have turbo lift - turbo sex. Inform the crew."


That is a great description of Kirstie Alley's portrayal. It is inevitable that a new actress would play the character differently, but Curtis was just wooden and uninteresting for me. Alley was a lot more compelling and spontaneous in her performance. I found her far more enjoyable in the role.
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