RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,408
Posts: 5,359,661
Members: 24,630
Currently online: 511
Newest member: DasGeneral


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 13 2011, 09:59 PM   #91
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I hope they dub Picard so he finally gets a French accent. I mean what the hell was that in the original run?
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 10:03 PM   #92
JRoss
Captain
 
JRoss's Avatar
 
Location: Stain'd-by-the-Sea
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

I think this is a fantastic idea. As to the argument that Paramount would not have archived the film with advanced technology and future upgrades in mind, consider that by this point in history future technology was already in development (HDTV's roots go back to the 70s) and films were being remastered.

If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.

Why mess with a good thing? Consider the future of Trek. If it is to stay alive, new fans must be brought to the franchise. If you were to show TNG to a non-fan in hopes of converting them, do you think that they would be more likely to join based on the same shots of the Excelsior every few episodes, the weird pinkish lights that comprised a lot of the space creature and energy field FX and the now painfully obvious facial appliance seams on a lot of the aliens, or would they be more eager to be a fan if they saw a more polished product.
__________________
Thunderegg Productions, a new indie publisher of RPG supplements
JRoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 10:04 PM   #93
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I hope they dub Picard so he finally gets a French accent. I mean what the hell was that in the original run?
Imagine the hell that would open up on this board if they dubbed over Stewart with a French actor. But hey, we're suppose to be fixing mistakes here. I'm sure if they had more time and money they would've went to France to get the right actor. Maybe along the way they can take Frakes out and replace him with an actor that doesn't constantly look like he's trying to push out a crap.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon

Last edited by BillJ; May 13 2011 at 10:21 PM.
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 10:06 PM   #94
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

JRoss wrote: View Post

If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.
But in the process you throw away an incredible amount of ingenious work done by the VFX people on this show.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 11:06 PM   #95
JRoss
Captain
 
JRoss's Avatar
 
Location: Stain'd-by-the-Sea
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Oh, no doubt, and I do respect the work of VFX people. I actually disliked much of the special edition of Star Wars because Lucas verbally disrespected the incredibly hard work of his original team and also replaced it with sometimes even worse effects. Jabba went from a life-like puppet to a gooey blob. Not cool.

For the most part what I would like to see is balancing the color scheme and fixing the throwaway shots, like the Enterprise and the Excelsior. Also, get rid of the weirder ships in the Wolf 359 graveyard and replace them with more traditional ships.
__________________
Thunderegg Productions, a new indie publisher of RPG supplements
JRoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 11:07 PM   #96
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

It won't be thrown away as long as they include the originals on the Blu-Ray releases, as they did with Star Trek.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 11:34 PM   #97
GNDN
Commodore
 
GNDN's Avatar
 
Location: Geosyncrhonous orbit over NJ
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Harvey wrote: View Post
It won't be thrown away as long as they include the originals on the Blu-Ray releases, as they did with Star Trek.
Problem as I see it is that creating new CGI FX for this project is virtually guaranteed. That much is similar to TOS except that there are more episodes and more FX per episode, so that means more money. OK let's say that's all done.

Now to the original FX. They can't just be transferred to HD in the way TOS FX were. Certainly not with current technology if we want them to look any good. So to preserve the originals, they would have to recreate them from the filmed elements, which means new compositing, and possibly new animation FX (I don't know if phaser fire, etc. were done as hand drawn animation or CGI originally, and don't know if any of those FX exist on film as opposed to only the lo-res video)

So not only are you talking about a larger project to begin with, but to properly present both versions would require nearly double the work as they would be recreating past FX work and creating new CGI. I'm concerned that this will not be considered worth the effort.
__________________
"It’s like we’ve set up Khan as some perfect ex-girlfriend/boyfriend who dumped us a long time ago, and we compare everyone we date to Khan. We’ll never be happy if we do this!" - Ryan Britt
GNDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 13 2011, 11:37 PM   #98
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Ideally, they should mix the footage they have on film with new stuff. The space shots look excellent in HD, as you can see from the shots they reused in Generations. I'm sure that other effects that mix with live action will look excellent as well once they are recomposited in HD.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 12:21 AM   #99
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

PorthosShadow wrote: View Post
A thought just occurred to me, are there any effects that could make "Shades Of Grey" less painful?
Heavy drinking, maybe...
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 05:44 AM   #100
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Ideally, they should mix the footage they have on film with new stuff. The space shots look excellent in HD, as you can see from the shots they reused in Generations. I'm sure that other effects that mix with live action will look excellent as well once they are recomposited in HD.
Unfortunately some of the shots done by Image G and in-house were not as good as ILM's stock shots...which were only provided in season one.

GNDN wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
It won't be thrown away as long as they include the originals on the Blu-Ray releases, as they did with Star Trek.
Problem as I see it is that creating new CGI FX for this project is virtually guaranteed. That much is similar to TOS except that there are more episodes and more FX per episode, so that means more money. OK let's say that's all done.

Now to the original FX. They can't just be transferred to HD in the way TOS FX were. Certainly not with current technology if we want them to look any good. So to preserve the originals, they would have to recreate them from the filmed elements, which means new compositing, and possibly new animation FX (I don't know if phaser fire, etc. were done as hand drawn animation or CGI originally, and don't know if any of those FX exist on film as opposed to only the lo-res video)

So not only are you talking about a larger project to begin with, but to properly present both versions would require nearly double the work as they would be recreating past FX work and creating new CGI. I'm concerned that this will not be considered worth the effort.

They were accomplished by basically hand painting with the Quantel Harry. They would certainly be replaced a good percentage of the time.



http://www.cva.co.uk/art-RD.htm

BillJ wrote: View Post
JRoss wrote: View Post

If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.
But in the process you throw away an incredible amount of ingenious work done by the VFX people on this show.
Its a shame but their work can't be seen properly in modern format. Good reason to "future proof". I'm sure if you really want they'll preserve the old episodes as well but its not really ncessary to watch it.

RAMA
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan

Last edited by RAMA; May 14 2011 at 06:24 AM.
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 06:21 AM   #101
RAMA
Vice Admiral
 
RAMA's Avatar
 
Location: NJ, USA
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Dare I say it....I wanna see the vertical Warbird!!

http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com...march_r021.jpg

http://flareupload.pleh.net/uploads/858/rom-10.jpg

Season 2:

1. The Child: Excellent FX, but perhaps they could exchange the excelsior class for something less than 100 years old?

4. The Outrageous Okana: A plethora of bad ship designs in this one..

7. Unnatural Selection: Again, a Reliant kitbash/strip down. 120 year old ship design in STNG used to save money. It has to be redone anyway, why not make it a new science ship?

8. Contagion: Minor errors with starship proportions here. Vertical Warbird?

9. The Royale: Maybe they can edit in some of the Vians here. Anything would make this better.

More tomo
__________________
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Carl Sagan
RAMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 06:48 AM   #102
Mark 2000
Commander
 
Mark 2000's Avatar
 
Location: San Francisco
Send a message via AIM to Mark 2000
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

JRoss wrote: View Post
If you don't like the idea because it is messing with someone else' vision, go to Memory Alpha, read synopses for the episodes and take note of how many changes were made to a script/episode/FX shot due to limited time, budget or other adverses circumstances. You'll find that the finished product was often a far departure from the original intent.
This is a bad argument. Limitations often breed creativity. Take a look at comics from the golden and silver age look with only 6 colors available to the artists compared to 16 million computer color and glossy paper afford? It doesn't look better. In fact, the majority of comics are over saturated messes. Look at 1960's cartoons that were created on a very strict budget, it bred the simplistic geometries of the UPA and Hanna Barara style. Look at TOS's sets and how cheap construction forced amazing lighting schemes to make them work.

Limits breed creativity. They create style. TNG was made within limits and it looks pretty good. The real model ship may not have been shot a whole lot of times, but the shots we got look great. The ship has weight. It moves beautifully. It has iconic angles. If TOS-R proved anything its that just because you can shoot a ship from any angle and make it move any way you want doesn't mean you should.
__________________
Creator of Klingon Propaganda. Artist and writer for Star Trek: The Webcomic.
Mark 2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 07:07 AM   #103
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

GNDN wrote: View Post
So not only are you talking about a larger project to begin with, but to properly present both versions would require nearly double the work as they would be recreating past FX work and creating new CGI. I'm concerned that this will not be considered worth the effort.
It's probably guaranteed that the original versions will not be the project's priority, but hopefully they'll be included in some format (even if it is the previously released versions in SD). As for what the final home video release will include...we'll see.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 02:18 PM   #104
GNDN
Commodore
 
GNDN's Avatar
 
Location: Geosyncrhonous orbit over NJ
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

RAMA wrote: View Post
They were accomplished by basically hand painting with the Quantel Harry. They would certainly be replaced a good percentage of the time.

[IMG]
Thanks for the link, RAMA! More cool TNG info all the time.

RAMA wrote: View Post
Its a shame but their work can't be seen properly in modern format. Good reason to "future proof". I'm sure if you really want they'll preserve the old episodes as well but its not really ncessary to watch it.
Which is exactly why, although work-intensive and perhaps unrealistic to expect, I would love them to re-create the look of the original FX as closely as possible, compositing new animation FX with the actual filmed model shots, etc. to create an acceptable, legacy HD version, in addition to whatever re-imagining they choose to create.

I know I'm asking alot, but at least the TNG DVDs are still with us, which will most likely be the best the show will ever look without replacing elements and recreating shots.
__________________
"It’s like we’ve set up Khan as some perfect ex-girlfriend/boyfriend who dumped us a long time ago, and we compare everyone we date to Khan. We’ll never be happy if we do this!" - Ryan Britt
GNDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2011, 03:13 PM   #105
Squiggy
LORD SHIT SUPREME
 
Squiggy's Avatar
 
Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
View Squiggy's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Squiggy
Re: What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?

Poopday Machine wrote: View Post
Look at 1960's cartoons that were created on a very strict budget, it bred the simplistic geometries of the UPA and Hanna Barara style.
Yeah. That era of animation is generally regarded to be inferior to the previous generation. Not the best example...also pretty subjective.
__________________
ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!
Squiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
tng-r

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.