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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 18 2011, 08:05 PM   #271
Dac
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I know I was advocating a 16:9 conversion, but after actually watching the show on my TV....stretching it to 16:9 is by no means terrible. It's perfectly watchable that way if you ask me. So do it at the original aspect ratio I say and I'll watch it stretched. I realized that's how I've seen most of TNG anyhow recently as my main TV automatically fills in the black bars and I honestly haven't noticed until now.
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Old June 18 2011, 08:09 PM   #272
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
Let's not ask CBS to abandon the OAR and rape the image on upcoming high-def releases, forcing all customers to go along with said curious need. Please.
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Marketability is necessary, but must never take precedence over what film is about.
I also hope they won't rape the image with new fx.
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Old June 18 2011, 08:27 PM   #273
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Just curious... exactly how was TOS messed up? HD is much closer to what the film actually looks like. The new FX have nothing to do with the remaster. Not only that, but you can watch the original episodes in HD with the original FX on the blu-rays. So I'm not really sure what the problem is as you se it.
So, when I'm watching the HD episodes with original FX, I will see the episodes just like they were on the DVD box sets, only in HD? Nothing else has been changed?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Um... you do know that old black and white movies were never shown in TV "standard definition." They couldn't be. The quality on the big screen would be so horrible that you wouldn't even know what you were looking at.
I thought we were talking about TV presentations, not about theatrical ones. And my point wasn't about HD in this case, but about the movies still being in black and white. People accept this fact and don't mind, so why cant they accept the fact that old tv series' contain fx made in SD? Or the whole series in SD? Personally, I'd prefer the series as it was meant to be in SD over something raped solely for the mighty cause of HD!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
HD is, by and large, about preserving the original, not changing anything.
That's how it should be. But adding new FX is changing EVERYTHING!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
In what way was TOS sacrificed? A less-detailed transfer is better? Please explain. It's like someone who gets the actual original Mona Lisa complaining, "This is terrible! My postcard with a bad copy of the Mona Lisa on it was just fine! Why did they have to ruin it for me by sending me the real thing?" Again, pelase explain this position. I'm at a complete loss to understand it.
I'd rather have the original Mona Lisa than one that has been updated with "new and fresh" colours just to get some more visitors to the Louvre.
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Old June 19 2011, 04:19 AM   #274
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Just curious... exactly how was TOS messed up? HD is much closer to what the film actually looks like. The new FX have nothing to do with the remaster. Not only that, but you can watch the original episodes in HD with the original FX on the blu-rays. So I'm not really sure what the problem is as you se it.
So, when I'm watching the HD episodes with original FX, I will see the episodes just like they were on the DVD box sets, only in HD? Nothing else has been changed?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Um... you do know that old black and white movies were never shown in TV "standard definition." They couldn't be. The quality on the big screen would be so horrible that you wouldn't even know what you were looking at.
I thought we were talking about TV presentations, not about theatrical ones. And my point wasn't about HD in this case, but about the movies still being in black and white. People accept this fact and don't mind, so why cant they accept the fact that old tv series' contain fx made in SD? Or the whole series in SD? Personally, I'd prefer the series as it was meant to be in SD over something raped solely for the mighty cause of HD!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
HD is, by and large, about preserving the original, not changing anything.
That's how it should be. But adding new FX is changing EVERYTHING!

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
In what way was TOS sacrificed? A less-detailed transfer is better? Please explain. It's like someone who gets the actual original Mona Lisa complaining, "This is terrible! My postcard with a bad copy of the Mona Lisa on it was just fine! Why did they have to ruin it for me by sending me the real thing?" Again, pelase explain this position. I'm at a complete loss to understand it.
I'd rather have the original Mona Lisa than one that has been updated with "new and fresh" colours just to get some more visitors to the Louvre.
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Old June 19 2011, 05:40 AM   #275
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
People accept this fact and don't mind, so why cant they accept the fact that old tv series' contain fx made in SD? Or the whole series in SD?
What does "SD" mean to you? Many old television programs were filmed at much higher resolution than DVD (i.e. "SD") is capable of.

adding new FX is changing EVERYTHING!
Not on Star Trek it doesn't. If it changed "everything" the entire series would have to be remade, which obviously isn't going to happen.

I'd rather have the original Mona Lisa than one that has been updated with "new and fresh" colours
Isn't the world a big enough place for both? Is there only one "true artist" whose vision is worthy of your consideration?

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Old June 19 2011, 08:04 AM   #276
Oso Blanco
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

scotthm wrote: View Post
What does "SD" mean to you? Many old television programs were filmed at much higher resolution than DVD (i.e. "SD") is capable of.
I know that! And if a transfer to HD can be done without changing anything but the resolution, than I'm all for it. But if it means ruining a movie or a series with new fx only to serve the fetish of HD, it shouldn't.

Does it reall hurt to watch something in SD instead of HD? Most tv programmes here in Germany are SD anyway and I don't have the slightest problem with that, even though I have an HDTV set.
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Old June 19 2011, 08:14 AM   #277
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
So, when I'm watching the HD episodes with original FX, I will see the episodes just like they were on the DVD box sets, only in HD? Nothing else has been changed?
There is a cleaning of the film (scratchs etc).

And you can use the ORIGINAL mono audio track.
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Old June 19 2011, 08:26 AM   #278
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Does it reall hurt to watch something in SD instead of HD? Most tv programmes here in Germany are SD anyway and I don't have the slightest problem with that, even though I have an HDTV set.
Then what is there to complain about? The originals are out there on television and home video, and have been for years. They'll probably be available for years to come.

I hope both will be available on Blu-Ray when it comes to TNG, like TOS, but of course this project isn't even official yet, so we'll see.
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Old June 19 2011, 12:02 PM   #279
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
scotthm wrote: View Post
What does "SD" mean to you? Many old television programs were filmed at much higher resolution than DVD (i.e. "SD") is capable of.
I know that! And if a transfer to HD can be done without changing anything but the resolution, than I'm all for it. But if it means ruining a movie or a series with new fx only to serve the fetish of HD, it shouldn't.

Does it reall hurt to watch something in SD instead of HD? Most tv programmes here in Germany are SD anyway and I don't have the slightest problem with that, even though I have an HDTV set.
How is it ruined? For anyone spending a small fortune on HD equipment and subscription, TNG in its current form is just fuzzy eighties crap. HD is the new standard, new content is all HD now, and the vintage reruns will be the ones that look good. TOS-R falls into this category, TNG doesn't. Remember that TNG stopped production nearly 20 years, much of the target audience we're not even born then. The one thing that has ruined TNG is the advances in technology and viewer expectation that have brought the series faults to prominence, this is the chance to fix it.

Since all the xf shots have to be redone anyway, it is a waste to do a shot for upgrade just to please the tiny number of purists that will both hate and most likely buy whatever is done anyway. Forget TNG-R, we want TNG+.
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Old June 19 2011, 01:14 PM   #280
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

CBS desperately need to redo the effects in TNG for HD. Some of the shots nowadays look god awful, even in SD. For example, Q's stupid energy net in his S1 eps, some of the energy effects in Q Who, Code Of Honor in general, Wesley Crusher.

I can watch TOS and TOS-R and get used to the camera work and composition because it's a 60's show and there's a certain amount of context a viewer can apply. Also, TOS's brighter colour palette pops nicely in HD.

But TNG's overall 80's look can be incredibly bland with its muted colours and at times appear incredibly cheap. Especially when you have such good motion controlled model work mixed with shitty rotoscoped everything else.

I really hope they don't go for a shot-for-shot remake of the effects like TOS-R.
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Old June 19 2011, 01:40 PM   #281
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

I love how some people argue that it's okay to cut out the effects in the name of HD, but then have a problem with the series being reframed for 16:9 presentation.
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Old June 19 2011, 02:13 PM   #282
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
I love how some people argue that it's okay to cut out the effects in the name of HD, but then have a problem with the series being reframed for 16:9 presentation.
While you may put both down to being a purist, they're actually two very different things.
The redone effects are being done from scratch. In theory they could redo them identically to the original, or they could do them from scratch with no limitations. Either way, the aspect ratio will not affect how well they can do this, because they would make them with whatever aspect ratio in mind (or both, as TOS-R probably did).

The problem with reframing the live action to 16:9 isn't just because it's a change from the original, but because by the very nature of how it has to be done, cannot maintain the integrity of the composition. Unlike redoing the CG, they cannot remake the shots from scratch and film it for widescreen. They only have the original 4:3 film. All they can do is crop the image.

I love how some people can't see the issue of cropping off parts of an image, but thinking it will somehow look better simply because it's "widescreen".
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Old June 19 2011, 02:18 PM   #283
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BlobVanDam wrote: View Post

I love how some people can't see the issue of cropping off parts of an image, but thinking it will somehow look better simply because it's "widescreen".
Have you actually tried to watch it in 16:9? With TOS, at least, they did such a good job with composition that you can hit the 'zoom' button, 95% of the time you wouldn't know that it was shot in 4:3.
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Old June 19 2011, 02:35 PM   #284
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

BillJ wrote: View Post
BlobVanDam wrote: View Post

I love how some people can't see the issue of cropping off parts of an image, but thinking it will somehow look better simply because it's "widescreen".
Have you actually tried to watch it in 16:9? With TOS, at least, they did such a good job with composition that you can hit the 'zoom' button, 95% of the time you wouldn't know that it was shot in 4:3.
I have. Our broadcast here on TV was actually the 16:9 crop, and even though I was watching it on a 4:3 set, and had never seen the original episodes, and never knew there was a 16:9 cropped version, I actually found it hard to watch and instantly knew it was cropped (which I confirmed by pressing the aspect ratio button to see it was "widescreen", so tried watching it that way instead to see if the "full" picture).
The heads were cropped so close that they had no hair or chins, and everything felt very claustrophobic in the framing.
If that's what is considered a good job, then I am officially worried.
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Old June 19 2011, 02:45 PM   #285
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Re: Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Butters wrote: View Post
HD is the new standard, new content is all HD now
So is colour tv, has been for decades. Thankfully there were only very few attempts to colourize old black and white movies, and people are still enjoying those old movies, despite the lack of colour.
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