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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old September 5 2011, 04:52 PM   #1
david g
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Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

BOBW--seeing it again today after a while. It's absolutely first-rate--the pacing, the dialogue, the plotting. I love the way Locutus-Picard's red light beam fills the viewscreen at the end--so chilling. And this has to be the best score ever for a post-TOS episode.

My only disappointment is actually not with the episode itself, but with the loss of a GREAT new character in Shelby, played tautly by Elizabeth Dennehy. Especially considering that the lack of strong women characters was being lamented with the loss of Tasha Yar, the producers had a great chance to bring in a highly complex character. It would have been interesting to see her at DS9, too. Oh well...

I know Yar is a fan favorite to this day, but what of Shelby? I know she's in the New Frontier books.
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Old September 5 2011, 05:48 PM   #2
TV's Frank
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

Great character for sure, she brought a lot to that two-parter and it was briefly considered, but once Patrick Stewart re-negotiated his contract that summer and the cast assembled could remain the same, the producers did not feel the need to add a new recurring character. At least, no until season 5 with Ro Laren. If BOBW had occurred as the season 4/5 cliffhanger & resolution, perhaps Shelby would have become a permanent cast member. According to Michael Piller in the Oct '91 issue of Cinefantastique, he wanted to add a new character "in story" and not create new from whole cloth. Essentially, find someone already has had appeared or had a small role on TNG and promote them to a more consistent and integral part of the crew, thus Chief O'brien was brought forward.

However, I also read an interview with the actress Elizabeth Dennehy who stated that while thoroughly enjoyed her time on those two episodes she was not fond of the tech speak at all and didn't think she could ever get used to it.

Last edited by TV's Frank; September 5 2011 at 06:04 PM.
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Old September 5 2011, 08:57 PM   #3
Takeru
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

They should have fired Jonathan Frakes, I never liked Riker and it would have made sense to give him his own command, Shelby would have been a good XO.
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Old September 5 2011, 08:57 PM   #4
Supernuke
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

That is a shame, she was so good in that role! I wish that they had used her again at least one more time.
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Old September 5 2011, 09:35 PM   #5
antiquityscion
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

Interesting topic. BTW, a fan-made online series had Shelby as a main character.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Hidden_Frontier

I don't know if it would have worked it they added Shelby as a permanent cast member (i think at that point it would have been too many cast members if they did), but I wish they could have had Shelby as a reoccurring character. I liked Shelby far more than Ro Laren. I never could stand Ensign Ro, actually, and I never got the appeal of that character.

I am happy with how Voyager turned out, but I have often wondered what Voyager would have been like if, instead of Janeway, we had Shelby in command of Voyager.
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Old September 5 2011, 11:59 PM   #6
RAMA
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

david g wrote: View Post
BOBW--seeing it again today after a while. It's absolutely first-rate--the pacing, the dialogue, the plotting. I love the way Locutus-Picard's red light beam fills the viewscreen at the end--so chilling. And this has to be the best score ever for a post-TOS episode.

My only disappointment is actually not with the episode itself, but with the loss of a GREAT new character in Shelby, played tautly by Elizabeth Dennehy. Especially considering that the lack of strong women characters was being lamented with the loss of Tasha Yar, the producers had a great chance to bring in a highly complex character. It would have been interesting to see her at DS9, too. Oh well...

I know Yar is a fan favorite to this day, but what of Shelby? I know she's in the New Frontier books.
She would have been great as a third officer, and Data as the science officer. I don't think they wanted to mess around with the group again so soon after Muldaur and Gates.

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Old September 6 2011, 01:47 AM   #7
Saxman1
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

I wanted to slap Shelby AND Ro. Picard bent over backwards to help Ro and in the end she betrayed him. Michelle Forbes has many admirers on the BBS, but I'm not one of them. She was effectively creepy in True Blood, but even then, she was just yuck. She always comes off as a mega-witch in anything I've seen her in, with the exception of the ep where the crew lost their memory and she and Riker were knocking boots. She was somewhat hot in that one and kind of sexy. Elizabeth Dennehy always reminded me of her father Brian in drag and the character of Shelby was even more abrasive than Ro, if that was possible. I can't see her fitting in with the rest of the ensemble. I recently saw her in an ep of The Mentalist and she looked about 70 years old. Has not aged well and she's only 51.

Obviously at some point, Stewart's agent may have to told him to not get too big for his britches or negotiated a huge raise and concessions such as more traditional leading man plots that Frakes was getting instead (hence the Vash fiasco). It never made sense to me that since they were able to rescue Picard from the Borg that Riker would remain as First Officer once he was a Captain and quite an efficient one, saving the Federation from Borg assimilation by using his wits and the talents of the Enterprise crew.
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Old September 6 2011, 03:01 AM   #8
Tiberius
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

I don't understand why Starfleet let Riker go back to Commander. He'd proven himself as a captain. Would have been much more logical for Riker to go off on his pown and have Shelby take over as first officer...
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Old September 6 2011, 06:54 AM   #9
TV's Frank
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
I don't understand why Starfleet let Riker go back to Commander. He'd proven himself as a captain. Would have been much more logical for Riker to go off on his pown and have Shelby take over as first officer...
Because Paramount had signed Frakes to a multi-year contract on the series. We can all try to figure out "in-universe" theories for this reason, but it doesn't have to fit any preconceptions about how Starfleet would act in a real-life environment. It is still a series with a regular cast under contract therefore Paramount would never just dismiss one of them because something made more sense story-wise for subsequent episodes.

And besides, Riker was always one of my favorite characters, so I personally am glad he remained on board!
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Old September 6 2011, 07:06 PM   #10
Gary7
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

I have a "love/hate" thing with Riker. At times I think his character is good and adds well to the series. At other times, I find him stiff, boring, and predictable. Once in a while, Frakes does a great job with the character. I don't know why he couldn't maintain that... unless it was various factors such as writing, directing, and his patience with the show.


Here's a scenario I would have liked to see:

In BOBW, when Picard has rehabilitated, Riker has another offer for commanding a starship. Starfleet is insistent that he take one this time, because of the extreme shortage of captains. Picard also pushes him and then, informs him that he already has a new XO selected: Shelby. We see a heart-torn Deanna watching Riker leave the ship, as he heads off to command the soon-to-be rebuilt Melbourne.

At first, Shelby has too much of the "star" syndrome, trying to impress everyone and outdo folks like Geordi and Worf. She has a few run-ins with Deanna too. But, after a few episodes, she seems to settle into the role. It's strange without Riker, but we start feeling like we could like Shelby.

Later, about 3/4 of the way through the season, we have an episode where the Melbourne sends out a distress signal. Although another vessel has acknowledged and responded, the Enterprise gets wind of it and Picard decides to postpone the current mission to go assist, because they could reach the ship within a day. Later, they find the Melbourne is seriously damaged with barely any life support operating. Data reports that he detects Borg signatures in the vicinity. They discover that Riker is one of the few crew members still alive, much to everyone's relief.. According to the ships logs, the Melbourne engaged a small Borg scout vessel that turned out to be more formidable than they anticipated. Picard is surprised that Riker attempted to take on the Borg without retreating first and calling for assistance (the Federation has a standing order that no Starfleet vessels should attempt to engage the Borg alone, with the mandate to flee at all costs).

While Riker is being tended to by Dr. Crusher and everybody is busy trying to figure out all of the details of what happened, Shelby heads over to the Melbourne of her own accord to investigate further. At that point, another Borg cube is detected on long range scanners. Picard decides it best to get away before they are detected. And they do... unknowingly leaving Shelby behind.

O'Brien later reports that Shelby was the last person to use the transporter, and beamed over to the Melbourne, thus solving the mystery of her disappearance. Picard concludes it's unsafe to return for a rescue and notes in his log that she was very likely assimilated by the Borg. Admiral Nechayev informs Picard that Riker is to be demoted back to Commander, as Starfleet decides that Riker's actions were likely reckless, causing the loss of ship and crew. Picard is tasked as a "rehabilitation mentor" for Riker, returning him to the role of XO aboard the Enterprise.
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Old September 6 2011, 11:29 PM   #11
Rulius
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

In a real world Star Fleet, Riker doing something like that he would probably get cashiered. Or a penal colony.
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Old September 6 2011, 11:42 PM   #12
Gary7
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

^ I didn't provide elaborate details... the main issue will be ambiguity. Riker will have claimed that they couldn't get away and had to engage, and that he had some newer ideas about how to possibly disable a Borg ship. However, there will be some evidence that suggests he could have gotten away. The ambiguity of the situation prevents him from losing his commission, just demoted.
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Old September 7 2011, 12:34 AM   #13
7ofJackson
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

Takeru wrote: View Post
They should have fired Jonathan Frakes, I never liked Riker and it would have made sense to give him his own command, Shelby would have been a good XO.
I could see her in as second in command but I have never been a Riker fan. I like Frakes, but not Riker.
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Old September 7 2011, 02:04 AM   #14
CaptainJack
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I have a "love/hate" thing with Riker. At times I think his character is good and adds well to the series. At other times, I find him stiff, boring, and predictable. Once in a while, Frakes does a great job with the character. I don't know why he couldn't maintain that... unless it was various factors such as writing, directing, and his patience with the show.


Here's a scenario I would have liked to see:

In BOBW, when Picard has rehabilitated, Riker has another offer for commanding a starship. Starfleet is insistent that he take one this time, because of the extreme shortage of captains. Picard also pushes him and then, informs him that he already has a new XO selected: Shelby. We see a heart-torn Deanna watching Riker leave the ship, as he heads off to command the soon-to-be rebuilt Melbourne.

At first, Shelby has too much of the "star" syndrome, trying to impress everyone and outdo folks like Geordi and Worf. She has a few run-ins with Deanna too. But, after a few episodes, she seems to settle into the role. It's strange without Riker, but we start feeling like we could like Shelby.

Later, about 3/4 of the way through the season, we have an episode where the Melbourne sends out a distress signal. Although another vessel has acknowledged and responded, the Enterprise gets wind of it and Picard decides to postpone the current mission to go assist, because they could reach the ship within a day. Later, they find the Melbourne is seriously damaged with barely any life support operating. Data reports that he detects Borg signatures in the vicinity. They discover that Riker is one of the few crew members still alive, much to everyone's relief.. According to the ships logs, the Melbourne engaged a small Borg scout vessel that turned out to be more formidable than they anticipated. Picard is surprised that Riker attempted to take on the Borg without retreating first and calling for assistance (the Federation has a standing order that no Starfleet vessels should attempt to engage the Borg alone, with the mandate to flee at all costs).

While Riker is being tended to by Dr. Crusher and everybody is busy trying to figure out all of the details of what happened, Shelby heads over to the Melbourne of her own accord to investigate further. At that point, another Borg cube is detected on long range scanners. Picard decides it best to get away before they are detected. And they do... unknowingly leaving Shelby behind.

O'Brien later reports that Shelby was the last person to use the transporter, and beamed over to the Melbourne, thus solving the mystery of her disappearance. Picard concludes it's unsafe to return for a rescue and notes in his log that she was very likely assimilated by the Borg. Admiral Nechayev informs Picard that Riker is to be demoted back to Commander, as Starfleet decides that Riker's actions were likely reckless, causing the loss of ship and crew. Picard is tasked as a "rehabilitation mentor" for Riker, returning him to the role of XO aboard the Enterprise.
I like this. And if Picard just writes her off really quickly because she was a pain in the arse would be slightly funny. The episode ends rather abruptly.
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Old September 7 2011, 02:35 AM   #15
BrotherofShran0
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Re: Best of Both Worlds, Part One is still amazing. But...Shelby?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I have a "love/hate" thing with Riker. At times I think his character is good and adds well to the series. At other times, I find him stiff, boring, and predictable. Once in a while, Frakes does a great job with the character. I don't know why he couldn't maintain that... unless it was various factors such as writing, directing, and his patience with the show.


Here's a scenario I would have liked to see:

In BOBW, when Picard has rehabilitated, Riker has another offer for commanding a starship. Starfleet is insistent that he take one this time, because of the extreme shortage of captains. Picard also pushes him and then, informs him that he already has a new XO selected: Shelby. We see a heart-torn Deanna watching Riker leave the ship, as he heads off to command the soon-to-be rebuilt Melbourne.

At first, Shelby has too much of the "star" syndrome, trying to impress everyone and outdo folks like Geordi and Worf. She has a few run-ins with Deanna too. But, after a few episodes, she seems to settle into the role. It's strange without Riker, but we start feeling like we could like Shelby.

Later, about 3/4 of the way through the season, we have an episode where the Melbourne sends out a distress signal. Although another vessel has acknowledged and responded, the Enterprise gets wind of it and Picard decides to postpone the current mission to go assist, because they could reach the ship within a day. Later, they find the Melbourne is seriously damaged with barely any life support operating. Data reports that he detects Borg signatures in the vicinity. They discover that Riker is one of the few crew members still alive, much to everyone's relief.. According to the ships logs, the Melbourne engaged a small Borg scout vessel that turned out to be more formidable than they anticipated. Picard is surprised that Riker attempted to take on the Borg without retreating first and calling for assistance (the Federation has a standing order that no Starfleet vessels should attempt to engage the Borg alone, with the mandate to flee at all costs).

While Riker is being tended to by Dr. Crusher and everybody is busy trying to figure out all of the details of what happened, Shelby heads over to the Melbourne of her own accord to investigate further. At that point, another Borg cube is detected on long range scanners. Picard decides it best to get away before they are detected. And they do... unknowingly leaving Shelby behind.

O'Brien later reports that Shelby was the last person to use the transporter, and beamed over to the Melbourne, thus solving the mystery of her disappearance. Picard concludes it's unsafe to return for a rescue and notes in his log that she was very likely assimilated by the Borg. Admiral Nechayev informs Picard that Riker is to be demoted back to Commander, as Starfleet decides that Riker's actions were likely reckless, causing the loss of ship and crew. Picard is tasked as a "rehabilitation mentor" for Riker, returning him to the role of XO aboard the Enterprise.
That's a good one. It fits Riker and Shelby. However, I like to think that shelby outwits the Borg and returns to the Federation with enough information to fight the Borg to a stand still. It could be possible that she provides the type of Armor and weapons that Admiral Janeway uses in Voyager's series finale.
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