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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old March 15 2011, 04:53 PM   #1
Joel_Kirk
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Need some info for my article...

My pitch on Asian American representation in Trek for a magazine has been accepted, and (as I get my essay final together for a class) I'm going to try to get a draft together for this week.

I have some questions in regards to Trek literature, which I hopefully haven't asked before.

Excuse any grammar stuff. I'm typing this at 8:44am...and I really have no reason to be up this early other than to return a laptop. (I kinda get pissy when I get up too early).

Anyway:

1. Has there been, or are there currently Asian couples in Trek literature?

(When I mean Asian couples, I mean on the level of what was seen with Yun-jin Kim and Daniel Dae Kim on Lost).

2. Aside from Sulu's 'romantic entanglement' in 'Entropy Effect'...has there been Asian men in Trek literature who have been romantically paired with non-Asian women?

(Believe it or not, Khan doesn't count).

3. Are there Asian women in Trek literature that are paired romantically with black, Latino, or Native American characters?

4. Aside from Asfrah Eden and the woman from 'Recovery' (I forget her name) have there been black women in Trek literature that are romantically paired with white men or non-black men?

Thank you for your help.
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Old March 15 2011, 05:39 PM   #2
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Does your definition of "Asian" include people who are natives of the Indian subcontinent? Or are you considering them ethnically separate for the purpose of your article? Just figured I'd get you to clarify terms before I offer intel that might not be useful.
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Old March 15 2011, 05:49 PM   #3
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Need some info for my article...

David Mack wrote: View Post
Does your definition of "Asian" include people who are natives of the Indian subcontinent? Or are you considering them ethnically separate for the purpose of your article? Just figured I'd get you to clarify terms before I offer intel that might not be useful.
By Asian, I'm mean East Asians, Southeast Asians, and Pacific Islanders...
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Old March 15 2011, 06:06 PM   #4
Christopher
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
By Asian, I'm mean East Asians, Southeast Asians, and Pacific Islanders...
Well, if you're doing this for a scholarly article, you'd better adopt more accurate terminology. Asia encompasses everything east of the Red Sea, the Mediterranean, the Black Sea south of the Russian border, the Ural River, and the Ural mountains. So it includes the entire non-African Mideast, the Indian subcontinent, Russia east of the Urals, and all the "-stans" in between. And it doesn't include the Pacific Islands. If your paper is focused on East/Southeast Asians and Pacific Islanders, then those are the terms you should use in it.


I guess Sulu and Susan Ling (Demora's mother) are an example of question 1. Also Sulu's parents, and Harry Kim's parents, though they're more from the show than the books.

For question 2, Harry was involved with Libby Webber in the show and books (though she had a different surname in Pathways), and an alternate Harry was involved with both B'Elanna Torres and Annika Hansen in Places of Exile.
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Old March 15 2011, 09:16 PM   #5
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, if you're doing this for a scholarly article, you'd better adopt more accurate terminology. Asia encompasses everything east of the Red Sea, the Mediterranean, the Black Sea south of the Russian border, the Ural River, and the Ural mountains. So it includes the entire non-African Mideast, the Indian subcontinent, Russia east of the Urals, and all the "-stans" in between. And it doesn't include the Pacific Islands. If your paper is focused on East/Southeast Asians and Pacific Islanders, then those are the terms you should use in it.
Thank you. I'm well aware of that.

However, you need to research one aspect, because you are misinformed:

According to my studies, advisors, instructor(s) who ARE Asian, as well as Asian American scholars: IT DOES INCLUDE THE PACIFIC ISLANDS. Hence the name Asian Americans usually use: Asian Pacific Americans...

Moreover, at a school I previously attended, I was part of a club called Asian PACIFIC Amercian Student Association.

I guess Sulu and Susan Ling (Demora's mother) are an example of question 1. Also Sulu's parents, and Harry Kim's parents, though they're more from the show than the books.

For question 2, Harry was involved with Libby Webber in the show and books (though she had a different surname in Pathways), and an alternate Harry was involved with both B'Elanna Torres and Annika Hansen in Places of Exile.
Which book was Susan Ling featured?

And what about questions 3 and 4?

Last edited by Joel_Kirk; March 15 2011 at 09:29 PM.
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Old March 15 2011, 09:23 PM   #6
Therin of Andor
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Which book was Susan Ling featured?
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Susan_Ling
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Old March 15 2011, 09:29 PM   #7
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Which book was Susan Ling featured?
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Susan_Ling
Thank you.
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Old March 15 2011, 09:36 PM   #8
captcalhoun
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Rana Desai (an Indian) is paired with Diego Reyes (Chilean origin, born on Luna) in Vanguard.

Jasminder Choudury (Indian ethnicity from Deneva) is involved with Worf, a Klingon (or getting there, not read Paths of Disharmony yet)

those immmeidately spring to mind.
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Old March 15 2011, 09:56 PM   #9
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Re: Need some info for my article...

4. John Harriman (Enterprise-B)'s girlfriend/future wife was West African. (Serpents Among the Ruins)
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Old March 15 2011, 10:11 PM   #10
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Need some info for my article...

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
Rana Desai (an Indian) is paired with Diego Reyes (Chilean origin, born on Luna) in Vanguard.

Jasminder Choudury (Indian ethnicity from Deneva) is involved with Worf, a Klingon (or getting there, not read Paths of Disharmony yet)

those immmeidately spring to mind.
Thank you. However, with Worf: He is an alien...not black, Latino, or Asian.

IIRC, weren't some of the posters 'casting' Tommy Lee Jones as Diego Reyes? (If so, that example won't work either).

*browsing online*

Ahhh a source:
http://www.davidmack.pro/harbinger_annotations.html

Definitely won't work.

Still...

Thank you for trying, though.

ToddCam wrote: View Post
4. John Harriman (Enterprise-B)'s girlfriend/future wife was West African. (Serpents Among the Ruins)
Interesting.

Thank you.
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Old March 15 2011, 10:44 PM   #11
Christopher
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
IIRC, weren't some of the posters 'casting' Tommy Lee Jones as Diego Reyes? (If so, that example won't work either).

*browsing online*

Ahhh a source:
http://www.davidmack.pro/harbinger_annotations.html

Definitely won't work.
Why? Actors don't have to be the same ethnicity as their characters. And this is a "virtual" casting anyway. It's not as if the Reyes character in the novels is really portrayed by Tommy Lee Jones, it's just a reference for readers and writers to use in imagining the character's general look and personality. (Other readers have suggested Edward James Olmos as Reyes, and that was actually Dave Mack's original preference for the role; Jones was his backup choice after Olmos was cast in Battlestar Galactica.)
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Old March 15 2011, 10:49 PM   #12
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Why? Actors don't have to be the same ethnicity as their characters.)

What? You mean Ricardo Montalban wasn't really a Sikh from northern India?

I'm crushed . . . .
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Old March 16 2011, 12:31 AM   #13
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
IIRC, weren't some of the posters 'casting' Tommy Lee Jones as Diego Reyes? (If so, that example won't work either).

*browsing online*

Ahhh a source:
http://www.davidmack.pro/harbinger_annotations.html

Definitely won't work.
Why? Actors don't have to be the same ethnicity as their characters. And this is a "virtual" casting anyway. It's not as if the Reyes character in the novels is really portrayed by Tommy Lee Jones, it's just a reference for readers and writers to use in imagining the character's general look and personality. (Other readers have suggested Edward James Olmos as Reyes, and that was actually Dave Mack's original preference for the role; Jones was his backup choice after Olmos was cast in Battlestar Galactica.)
Because 'casting' Tommy Lee Jones would be like casting Richard Dean Anderson as Sisko...then saying 'Sisko' is an African-American character.

So far, Robert Beltran and Roxann Dawson are the only two major Latino performers (of color, non-white Hispanic) in the 45 years of the franchise; this mirrors Garrett Wang and George Takei, as the only two Asian males in the 45 years of the franchise...

Regardless if it is 'real' casting or not, in regards to Reyes, it still gives an idea of who is in mind for the character.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Why? Actors don't have to be the same ethnicity as their characters.)

What? You mean Ricardo Montalban wasn't really a Sikh from northern India?

I'm crushed . . . .


Last edited by Joel_Kirk; March 16 2011 at 12:43 AM.
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Old March 16 2011, 01:32 AM   #14
Christopher
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Because 'casting' Tommy Lee Jones would be like casting Richard Dean Anderson as Sisko...then saying 'Sisko' is an African-American character.
But any such "casting" is done purely by the individual reader, and doesn't reflect the actual character, who only exists in prose. You can't take "casting" seriously when talking about characters who have no existence beyond words on a page. Like I said, some people imagine Edward James Olmos as Reyes. Some people probably imagine someone else altogether. None of us are under any obligation to agree with Dave's casting choices. (For instance, he imagines Billy Bob Thornton as Cervantes Quinn, but I don't like Thornton much so I imagine Quinn as Richard Dean Anderson.) Indeed, odds are that most readers of the novels have never read Dave's site or this BBS's casting thread and don't have any particular actor in mind for the role. So it doesn't make any sense for you to assume that Reyes somehow has to be Tommy Lee Jones or share his ethnicity.

Besides, even if it were an actual screen role being cast, non-Latino actors have played Latino characters before, and vice-versa. The difference between Anglo-Saxon and Latin ethnicities is not so great that one cannot credibly portray the other. At least, it's no worse than having a Chinese actor play a Korean character (Garrett Wang/Harry Kim) or a Korean actor play a Japanese character (Linda Park/Hoshi Sato).

Besides, you were the one who rejected including Worf because he was an alien rather than a black man. So you yourself set the precedent that it's the character's origins that matter, not the actor's origins.
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Old March 16 2011, 02:38 AM   #15
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Re: Need some info for my article...

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Regardless if it is 'real' casting or not, in regards to Reyes, it still gives an idea of who is in mind for the character.
And the actual source text doesn't, huh?

Yeah. Good luck in your scholarly pursuits, Professor.
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