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Old October 22 2011, 01:56 AM   #166
Gov Kodos
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

I think Juice's suicide or attempt which I think more likely, is going to be the catalyst that starts to draw the club into putting differences aside for a larger problem. Potter's manipulation through Roosevelt is likely to come out, though likely not Potter's ID. Also, if the other cartel is starting to raise trouble the club is likely to push aside its internal trouble to face a bigger threat.

The racism angle may fall away as a red herring- a fear in Juice's head put there by Roosevelt which the club does look past. The other cartel's threat can be something that helps get the club out of running drugs if Romeo's gang can't show they are strong enough to keep out their rivals. Lots of fun with guns in the sun to be had as the season winds up.
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Old October 22 2011, 09:31 AM   #167
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Temis the Bleeding Aorta wrote: View Post
The way Juice's suicide was staged, with the lovely rendition of Strange Fruit and all (with the coincidental and ironic line "here is fruit for the crows to pluck,") seems to be telling us that he's dead for real. They wouldn't go thru all that hooplah for a fake-out.
As far as I can see, all the breaking branch sound does is suck the power out of an otherwise very dramatic suicide scene. I don't see why they would do that just for a lame cliffhanger.

I believe the noise was supposed to be a droll way of implying the attempt was unsuccessful and was merely a misjudgement on the part of the writer. After all Juice's situation to date has been a tragicomedy of errors on his part.

Guess we'll see next week though.
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Old October 22 2011, 08:33 PM   #168
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Shurik wrote: View Post
If Juice is really dead, Roosevelt is going to turn on the FBI guy.
I'm not sure. Roosevelt was OK with blackmailing Juice into stealing cocaine, which would have got him killed were he discovered. He also went with the fake arrest, which probably was the thing that finally drove Juice to suicide.
Roosevelt was very conflicted about his role in all that. And he's a black man, using another (part) black man's fears about bigotry to coerce him, which has now possibly led to his suicide. I can't see Roosevelt being okay with that.

The Master of Tarquin Hill wrote: View Post
Shurik wrote: View Post
I hope Juice survives. I like his character and I also hope he gets the chance to face the club's racist bullshit.
This might happen. Even if it does, it will still be muddied by the fact that he was a half-assed snitch. I don't want the confrontation about racism to be sullied by snitch bullshit.
I'm totally on Juice's side in this one. His fears of the club's racism are apparently not just inventions of his own fears and lack of self-confidence. That was confirmed by Chibs' reaction to Juice asking about the rules - "hey, we have to follow the rules because they are the rules" - ergh, that doesn't communicate a great deal of open mindedness, and coming from one of the more sensible club members.

Juice is really guilty only of not having enough self-worth to confront the club on their bullshit and determine just how racist they really are. He might have discovered that nobody has any problem with him at all. At worst, they would have booted him out of the club, but does he really want to be a member of a club like that? Only if he's insecure and needs to have the ego boost, which apparently was the case. It's a common human failing and shouldn't have to be a fatal one.
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Old October 26 2011, 04:13 AM   #169
Joe Washington
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Poor Piney! And poor Opie! First he loses Donna, then Lyla runs out on him, and now he loses his father. How much loss can Opie take before he has a major breakdown?

I knew Clay was going to kill Piney sooner or later. But killing Piney makes him a bigger bastard than before in my eyes because I loved the Piney character. He was a tough, old son of a bitch who just wanted the club to become something better than what it is today. I hope Piney's parting words to Jax has an effect on Jay and makes him try to go back to the direction of changing the club that he abandoned.

I'm happy Jax was understanding of Tara's decision to leave Charming with the kids instead of it turning into a dramatic fight between them. I'm glad Jax is seeing that this deal with the Cartel is too hot for the club to handle and hope he will take some action aganist it.

Hopefully, the vote of leadership change will resume next episode and Chibs can help with Juice's emotional downward spiral.

Season 4 is becoming my favorite season.
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Old October 26 2011, 06:32 AM   #170
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

After Clay killed Piney my first thought was "How many years will it take for Jax to Kill Clay." The show is going to end with Clay's death, I have no doubt about that. I just wonder how long it is going to be drawn out.
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Old October 26 2011, 06:55 AM   #171
Joe Washington
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

They could throw in a surprise twist and have Jax kill Clay at the end of this season but that would throw the rest of the show's Hamlet superstructure into question with the Claudius figure dead before the end of the series.
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Old October 26 2011, 10:11 AM   #172
Gov Kodos
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Opie is the king of pain by now. Great episode, and William Lucking and Ron Perlman were great in this episode. It is one wild ride.
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Old October 26 2011, 09:08 PM   #173
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

I'm glad Juice survived! His story needs to play out to its natural conclusion, which involves Chibs figuring everything out, or Juice telling him, and the club dealing with the consequences of their racism.

But I'm afraid Juice will end up dead anyway, if for no other reason than it can be used to set Roosevelt against Potter.

Loved the way Gemma didn't scream or particularly react when she got a look at Chuck's secret recipe for extra-spicy Mexican chili.

Kurt Sutter has a plan for a few seasons after this, right? How the heck is he going to be able to keep the story going without Piney's murder blowing up in Clay's face? Maybe there's going to be some radical changes to the story, although I can't see this show continuing with Clay dead, in prison or on the run.
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Old October 26 2011, 11:09 PM   #174
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

I have a feeling that Sutter has some major twists coming up for the SOA story that'll keep it going for a few more seasons.
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Old October 26 2011, 11:25 PM   #175
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

I'm not surprised, of course, that Clay killed Piney... but I was hoping Piney wouldn't bit it, because I really liked that character.

Did anyone recognize what Clay wrote on the MC picture with Piney's blood? Was it by any chance the symbol for this other cartel that's causing problems? I'm assuming Clay intends to frame them for Piney's murder, though that seems like it would be a rather fragile attempt.

There's no way, after all, Gemma will believe it was anyone but Clay, and if Tara finds out Piney is dead before she leaves with the kids, then I'd be very surprised if she doesn't immediately turn JT's letters to Maureen Ashby over to Jax and tells him of her conversations with Piney.

And then there's Opie... Clay was already responsible for Donna's death, and now he's killed Piney personally. Opie will obviously be out for blood when he finds out, and I'm having a hard time believing anyone in the club - even Tig! - would back Clay after this.
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Old October 26 2011, 11:31 PM   #176
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

It looked like Clay wrote "LS" which I suppose might be Lobos [something]?

Seems like a very awkward way of trying to deflect suspicion. Why would the Lobos kill Piney in particular?
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Old October 26 2011, 11:36 PM   #177
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Maybe as a message to the Sons to stop helping out the Cartel they are in bed with. Killing one of the Sons' eldest members and one of their founders can be a way to deliver such a message.
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Old October 27 2011, 01:45 AM   #178
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Okay, I thought it was LS, but I wasn't sure. That'd be Lobos Sonora, indeed, then, the rival cartel. I still feel that'd be a flimsy cover, though. After all, we saw what seems to be the LS modus operandi in this episode - yet SAMCRO will discover Piney's body intact, not shipped to them head and body separated.
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Old October 27 2011, 03:38 AM   #179
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

The LS is a flimsy cover, but I imagine with everything going on Clay is thinking it might slip by. Alverez might not be fooled, just as he was astute enough to think of Juice as the last guy with the coke, and was willing to see the possible rat connection of one of his own easier than SAMCRO would. Apart from Unser, Gemma, and Tara because of the letters, no one has any real reason to suspect Clay. I do expect Tara to let Jax know about the letters so he can get to know JT better as Piney advised.
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Old October 27 2011, 07:42 PM   #180
Temis the Vorta
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Re: SONS OF ANARCHY tv series disscussions and comments

Joe Washington wrote: View Post
Maybe as a message to the Sons to stop helping out the Cartel they are in bed with. Killing one of the Sons' eldest members and one of their founders can be a way to deliver such a message.
It would be more likely to work if the Sons didn't already know that Clay and Piney were on the outs. Still, they might not believe that Clay could murder Piney like that. The Sons are always fighting about some shit or other, but in the end, they are intensely loyal to each other.

yet SAMCRO will discover Piney's body intact, not shipped to them head and body separated.
Unless Gemma thinks of that as a way to make the cover more convincing?
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