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Old March 14 2014, 10:48 PM   #1
Dorian Thompson
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Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)_

Episode 3- "Treachery"

Well, Athelstan can't turn back now. He's killed an unarmed person. I found it fascinating that he doesn't seem to have a problems raiding and killing any defending soldiers but the death of the young monk who surprised him and the older priest took its emotional toll. Perhaps Athelstan views the former as legitimate combatants, ergo....he can live with that. Not with the old priest being humiliated or the young one's death as Athelstan panicked a bit.

I wonder if all the fanboys and fangirls who were whinging after the comic con sneak peak that, "OH MY GODS, NO! DID ROLLO KILL FLOKI??? THEY CAN'T KILL FLOKI!!!!!" feel pretty foolish at the moment. Floki's one cruel, vindictive son of a bitch who doesn't mind a little torture. I liked the directing and writing choices to have Ragnar physically separated from the actual torture of the old priest--and his hiding of the child. The main protagonist can't be seen enjoying violence and cruelty too much or he loses rooting value. Mellowing with age, perchance? Athelstan's influence? The child reminded him of Bjorn? Numerous vikings and Danes did settle in England (Northumbria, I believe) for the farming.

It's not out of left field that Ragnar would suggest it and that he would be shrewd enough to realize that making peace is an easier way to accomplish it. Of course King Horik felt the need to have a violent outburst and scuttle the moment. Both he and Jarl Borg need to die immediately. Jarl Borg really doesn't appreciate being left behind, does he?

Lagertha is breaking my heart. She's so strong and forceful, even in her acquiescence. Trying to secure a future for Bjorn with some money and land, I suppose, but she is going to end up killing this new husband. She has to. Challenge him like Ragnar challenged Earl Haraldson. That would be awesome. Katheryn Winnick is so athletic with all her martial arts training that I could see it happening.

Rollo, Rollo, Rollo...I've almost forgiven you. Siggy's willing to fight and die alongside you. Wake up and smell the coffee, dude. And I'm LOVING King Ecbert. King Ecbert of Wessex was the Anglo Saxon ruler at the start of the 9th century AD. Who is the actor? He's superb.

So--Athelstan cutting the priest's throat pretty much was a mercy killing, no? Opinions?
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Old March 14 2014, 11:30 PM   #2
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Numerous vikings and Danes did settle in England (Northumbria, I believe) for the farming.
Map of such stuff:



And mercy kill? Oh yes.
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Old March 15 2014, 12:10 AM   #3
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Well, Athelstan can't turn back now. He's killed an unarmed person. I found it fascinating that he doesn't seem to have a problems raiding and killing any defending soldiers but the death of the young monk who surprised him and the older priest took its emotional toll. Perhaps Athelstan views the former as legitimate combatants, ergo....he can live with that. Not with the old priest being humiliated or the young one's death as Athelstan panicked a bit.
I think Athelstan saw himself in that young monk. That was basically him several years ago, down to clutching a book (it even looked like the same cover). He definitely had the "what have I become?" look after the killing of the monk.
I wonder if all the fanboys and fangirls who were whinging after the comic con sneak peak that, "OH MY GODS, NO! DID ROLLO KILL FLOKI??? THEY CAN'T KILL FLOKI!!!!!" feel pretty foolish at the moment. Floki's one cruel, vindictive son of a bitch who doesn't mind a little torture.
Floki was like this since the sack of Lindisfarne scene or the raid of the small Northumbrian town a couple episodes after that, where he murdered a priest for no reason. He's the most devoted to the Norse religion of all the characters, and his particular version of devotion is killing as many Christians as he can.
I liked the directing and writing choices to have Ragnar physically separated from the actual torture of the old priest--and his hiding of the child. The main protagonist can't be seen enjoying violence and cruelty too much or he loses rooting value. Mellowing with age, perchance? Athelstan's influence? The child reminded him of Bjorn? Numerous vikings and Danes did settle in England (Northumbria, I believe) for the farming.
I think Ragnar is in the raiding business not for treasure or killing, but for the land. He wants to settle in England, not pillage and burn it and return to wherever he lives. Yeah, he's not a complete psycho like Floki.
Of course King Horik felt the need to have a violent outburst and scuttle the moment.
Actually, if you watch that scene, the guy whom Horik murdered was counting the Vikings during the conversation between Ragnar and the priest. Horik probably thought that letting him go is too much of a risk. It doesn't make Horik less of a psycho though.
And I'm LOVING King Ecbert. King Ecbert of Wessex was the Anglo Saxon ruler at the start of the 9th century AD. Who is the actor? He's superb.
I love this character too, he seems very calm, very smart and seems like a very dangerous enemy. The historical Ecbert was grandfather of Alfred The Great.
The actor's name is Linus Roache, I haven't seen him in anything before Vikings.
So--Athelstan cutting the priest's throat pretty much was a mercy killing, no? Opinions?
Definitely mercy killing.
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Old March 15 2014, 05:07 AM   #4
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Oh yes, Alfred the Great. I've read a bit about him. One of the most fascinating Anglo Saxon kings if not the most. Britain's history is compelling. It's also shaped by Vikings and Northmen to a degree most don't realize, especially since the Vikings pretty much were the forebears of the Normans. These Vikings are the ancestors of all we Americans of northern European descent. Ragnar and Lagertha are gramps and granny to us.
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Old March 15 2014, 11:04 AM   #5
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Oh yes, Alfred the Great. I've read a bit about him. One of the most fascinating Anglo Saxon kings if not the most. Britain's history is compelling. It's also shaped by Vikings and Northmen to a degree most don't realize, especially since the Vikings pretty much were the forebears of the Normans. These Vikings are the ancestors of all we Americans of northern European descent. Ragnar and Lagertha are gramps and granny to us.
There's a great three-part documentary about Alfred and his children/grandchildren. This is the first part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L2fYvguLL0
The second and the third are also on Youtube last time I checked. Very interesting stuff about the birth of England as a united kingdom.
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Old March 15 2014, 11:49 PM   #6
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Thank you!! I'll be watching right now.
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Old March 16 2014, 08:45 PM   #7
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Definitely a mercy killing.

Ragnar...I think he's the visionary who has to deal with seeing his vision corrupted by those whom he needs to carry it out.

Talk about Stockholm...Lagertha would never have put up with that treatment from Ragnar.

Did they get brothers to play Bjorn? The resemblance between the actors is uncanny.

I had a major roll-eyes moment when Siggy came out ready for battle...Viking or no, she's just not the type. Maybe they're trying to set up some sort of Lagertha/Siggy role reversal element, but the moment just came too suddenly out of left field.
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Old March 16 2014, 09:00 PM   #8
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I had a major roll-eyes moment when Siggy came out ready for battle...Viking or no, she's just not the type. Maybe they're trying to set up some sort of Lagertha/Siggy role reversal element, but the moment just came too suddenly out of left field.
Why? Other women, old men, and anyone else who could lift a weapon was ready to fight to save their village.
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Old March 16 2014, 09:32 PM   #9
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

True, but she's just not the type. She's the manipulator, and the moment was played like she'd suddenly become the wannabe-warrior.
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Old March 17 2014, 01:39 AM   #10
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Siggy is a woman who's lost her husband and her position; she's a woman whose two sons were murdered and whose daughter was lost to the plague. Then her friend and protector, Lagertha, left because of Ragnar's actions. The one man she seems to care for is a drunk. She's had a horrific road in life so far. Better to die in battle and see the gods and all that. Siggy does seem to love Rollo. From my perspective it's not such a stretch that she'd be willing to die beside him after all she's seen. Women probably believed in Valhalla as well. Over all, the Vikings seemed more ready to face death than your average Josephine.

Oh, great documentary on Alfred, Shurik. I admire his commitment to education, even for the common folk. To me, that makes him admirable among men and kings.
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Old March 17 2014, 03:21 AM   #11
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Numerous vikings and Danes did settle in England (Northumbria, I believe) for the farming.
Once of the things I find interesting about early English history is that it's punctuated by three "Germanic" invasions.

The Anglo-Saxon invasion in the Fifth Century, which ended the Romano-British era.

The Viking Invasions in the Eighth and Ninth Centuries which resulted in the majority of England being under Scandinavian rule.

The Norman Invasion in the Ninth Century which Anglo Saxon rule.
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Old March 17 2014, 07:47 AM   #12
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Siggy is a woman who's lost her husband and her position; she's a woman whose two sons were murdered and whose daughter was lost to the plague. Then her friend and protector, Lagertha, left because of Ragnar's actions. The one man she seems to care for is a drunk. She's had a horrific road in life so far. Better to die in battle and see the gods and all that. Siggy does seem to love Rollo. From my perspective it's not such a stretch that she'd be willing to die beside him after all she's seen. Women probably believed in Valhalla as well. Over all, the Vikings seemed more ready to face death than your average Josephine.

Oh, great documentary on Alfred, Shurik. I admire his commitment to education, even for the common folk. To me, that makes him admirable among men and kings.
Agreed, thanks for the link, Shurik. Neil Oliver has a great series about the vikings that is well worth watching, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H_gfusCt9Q
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Old March 17 2014, 10:28 AM   #13
Shurik
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Siggy is a woman who's lost her husband and her position; she's a woman whose two sons were murdered and whose daughter was lost to the plague. Then her friend and protector, Lagertha, left because of Ragnar's actions. The one man she seems to care for is a drunk. She's had a horrific road in life so far. Better to die in battle and see the gods and all that. Siggy does seem to love Rollo. From my perspective it's not such a stretch that she'd be willing to die beside him after all she's seen. Women probably believed in Valhalla as well. Over all, the Vikings seemed more ready to face death than your average Josephine.

Oh, great documentary on Alfred, Shurik. I admire his commitment to education, even for the common folk. To me, that makes him admirable among men and kings.
Agreed, thanks for the link, Shurik. Neil Oliver has a great series about the vikings that is well worth watching, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H_gfusCt9Q
Three parts, 2 hours each? I know what I'll watch during this weekend
In the documentary about Alfred, I think that the story of his daughter Aethelflaed is even more interesting than Alfred's. She and her brother, Edward the Elder, were those who finally stopped the Viking attempts to raid Wessex and pushed them back into Northumbria from most parts of England.
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Old March 22 2014, 03:48 PM   #14
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Episode 4:

- I thought that the crucifixion scene was another dream, but no, Athelstan does gets crucified just like the old priest said to him in the previous episode. That was hard to watch. I don't think he'll be seeing Ragnar any time soon (or ever).

- "I see an eagle, and the eagle is your destiny, Jarl Borg". Three guesses as to what will happen to Jarl Borg.

- Loved the reunion scene between Ragnar, Lagertha and Bjorn. Lagertha's new husband is a major asshole and will probably die horribly.

- I wonder what Ecbert proposed to Ragnar. Historically, Ecbert did manage to subdue Mercia and Northumbia and sort of rule over most of what's now England. Maybe he asked Ragnar to raid and weaken other Saxon kingdoms to help Ecbert take over them and get land there afterwards.
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Old March 22 2014, 04:25 PM   #15
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Re: Vikings season 2 episodes discussions (spoilers inside, of course)

Shurik wrote: View Post
- "I see an eagle, and the eagle is your destiny, Jarl Borg". Three guesses as to what will happen to Jarl Borg.
I was thinking the same thing.
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