A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

[superdeluxe]

I liked how they addressed that Osha did not want to go North.

[CaptainCanada]

Evil Twin wrote:

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You'd think they could've given some lines to Luwin to help clear up the matter.

Clearly they didn't want to, to keep House Bolton's treachery more of a surprise (they also eliminated most of this book's foreshadowing about Roose's general character).

[FreezeC77]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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In the book he was despondent when his brothers were seemingly killed and slept with a girl. Having already done that, he felt he had no other choice but to marry her, since he's taken her virginity.

In the show it's Robb quite consciously choosing to break his oath for no reason at all other than he feels like it.

I agree with your views on it. In the books Robb is at this time what 16 years old? Being King of the North with his Father dead... He leads an attack on the Westerling's keep and takes an arrow during it. Jeyne is the oldest daughter of the noble household and she nurses him and tends to his injury. While he's there he receives word that Bran and Rickon are dead. Jeyne comforts him, they sleep together and he marries her the very next door because of feeling he had dishonored her.

He attacked her home, captured it, she nurses him from injury he sustained while attacking her home... He then takes her virginity in her own home (not that she was resisting). But the circumstances are more understandable than what the tv show did.

They give him a foreign woman who comes across as being around the bend 'once or twice'.

[Kegg]

A penis is not an a gun you accidentally fire into a woman when you're not careful. Robb was pretty stupid in the books and the TV series, end of. It's true there's more forethought in him going after Talisa, but then, is this considerably older Robb the kind of man who'd randomly screw a girl and then decide he needs to marry her? I do wonder if part of the reason the plot was changed was to accomodate that he's quite obviously not sixteen.

But then, generally speaking, Robb is meant to be a character who has a natural gift for war but less than ideal judgement in political matters, leaving him as a man who both never lost a battle and also lost everything. The Talisa plot fits perfectly the man who'd innocently deliver Theon into the hands of his old family.

Not that I'm that wild about the Talisa story. Assuming she's part of that whole Tywin Lannister plan hinted in the books, how does it work? If both Robb and Tyrion end up betrayed by their beautiful foreign women 'cause Lord Tywin is pulling the strings it'll feel a little redundant.

Klaus wrote:

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So Arya's going to leave Westeros before the Red Wedding? Unless I'm misremembering, that's an arguably-important change for her motivation to go...

She's not. Jaqen offered to take her to Braavos, but she said she wants to find her sisters and brothers and mother and the rest of it. I'm assuming that means the show will just set her on the course towards Catelyn.

[Klaus]

Yeah, I misread the preview...

[CaptainCanada]

Kegg wrote:

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It's true there's more forethought in him going after Talisa, but then, is this considerably older Robb the kind of man who'd randomly screw a girl and then decide he needs to marry her?

It doesn't really have anything to do with him being sixteen, it's a societal thing. He can either leave her a "ruined" woman or do the honourable thing and marry her, and because he's his father's son he chooses the latter.

[Kegg]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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It doesn't really have anything to do with him being sixteen, it's a societal thing. He can either leave her a "ruined" woman

You skipped a beat - the 'ruining' of her honour to begin with, which has everything to do with him being sixteen. I'd assume if he was older he'd be less likely to sleep with unmarried noblewomen if he actually cared about their honour.

Again, you can't treat him having sex with her like a gun accidentally going off. It's something he did on purpose and while conscious.

[The Green Mushroom]

Kelthaz wrote:

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I wonder if we're going to get some scenes with Ramsay and Theon next season. I can't imagine the writers leaving him out of the show for the next two or three seasons.

That makes a lot of sense to me. I was less than pleased that they left out Ramsay Snow from the season has he seems--at least to me--to be far too important a character to get rid of or demote to extra. Especially since they had no trouble keeping Roose around--though I did think that maybe they were planning on combining the two characters into one.

But keeping the Theon character around next year makes sense for so many TV related reasons (keeping the actor with the show, keeping the character in the audiences' mind, etc) that I could easily see, and accept, the Ramsay and Reek show playing out over the next couple of years until we get to the DWD scenes in season five.

[Scout101]

Will say that after watching him on TV, more sympathetic to Theon (yeah, he's a little shit, and did bad stuff, but still feel bad about his situation), so his later storyline is gonna sit a lot worse with me now than it did when reading....

[Venardhi]

Kegg wrote:

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You skipped a beat - the 'ruining' of her honour to begin with, which has everything to do with him being sixteen. I'd assume if he was older he'd be less likely to sleep with unmarried noblewomen if he actually cared about their honour.

Again, you can't treat him having sex with her like a gun accidentally going off. It's something he did on purpose and while conscious.

Because no one has ever made a rash decision in a moment of weakness, especially not a teenage boy with a girl offering herself to him. I was there not too long ago, I remember very well how easy it was (and sometimes still is) to get caught up in those feelings. You act as if people are always rational.

[Shurik]

The Green Mushroom wrote:

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That makes a lot of sense to me. I was less than pleased that they left out Ramsay Snow from the season has he seems--at least to me--to be far too important a character to get rid of or demote to extra. Especially since they had no trouble keeping Roose around--though I did think that maybe they were planning on combining the two characters into one.

But keeping the Theon character around next year makes sense for so many TV related reasons (keeping the actor with the show, keeping the character in the audiences' mind, etc) that I could easily see, and accept, the Ramsay and Reek show playing out over the next couple of years until we get to the DWD scenes in season five.

I think they'll do what they did with Jaime this year - show him in several episodes, suffering at the hands of Ramsay, trying to escape, get caught, suffer some more. ADWD runs in parallel with AFFC and Theon's imprisonment actually starts much earlier. There's no need to make him disappear for two years.

[CaptainCanada]

Shurik wrote:

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I think they'll do what they did with Jaime this year - show him in several episodes, suffering at the hands of Ramsay, trying to escape, get caught, suffer some more. ADWD runs in parallel with AFFC and Theon's imprisonment actually starts much earlier. There's no need to make him disappear for two years.

They went out of their way to avoid introducing Ramsay this year, and there's been no word on casting him, so I suspect he actually may not show up until Season 5.

[Shurik]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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They went out of their way to avoid introducing Ramsay this year, and there's been no word on casting him, so I suspect he actually may not show up until Season 5.

Roose mentioned his bastard a few times and the ending scene in Winterfell needs some explaining for the viewers who didn't read the books. May be you right and Ramsay is pushed forward like Balckfish was, but I still don't think that D&D would abandon this story for 2 seasons. Alfie Allen is a part of the main cast and had a significant and unfinished story this year, and IMO Alfie was great in it.

[Ayelbourne]

Agreed. Ramsay needs to be in the next season for the sake of having a storyarc for Alfie Allen.

[Kegg]

Venardhi wrote:

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Because no one has ever made a rash decision in a moment of weakness, especially not a teenage boy with a girl offering herself to him.

That's precisely my point - in the book he's a teenaged boy. Since the TV series Robb is a bit older (and very clearly not teenager), it's a less plausible thing for him to do.