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Old June 26 2014, 03:17 PM   #2536
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The biggest question marks as to whether they'll be included next season, or at all, are Lady Stoneheart, Aegon, Jon Connington, Euron Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, Aeron Greyjoy, Arianne Martell, Quentyn Martell, and Val.
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Old June 26 2014, 04:08 PM   #2537
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
They've cut all the actually important flashbacks, why suddenly include them for something as easy to gloss over as Cersei's prophecy?
I thought much the same. Seems odd.
Probably for the same reason why they haven't introduced Stoneheart yet. I suspect that, if they're going to address something like these particular story items, they aren't going to peacemeal them into the series, especially since they only have 10 hours of showtime to work with. The story is already quite complex, especially for a TV format. If they were to throw in a whole bunch of little disjointed scenes that have no real pay-out or resolution by the end of a season, most viewers might scratch their heads and say "what about X, Y and Z???"

Case in point: I remember, during Nu-Battlestar Galactica's run, they would randomly throw some things into the show that would seem like they could have major impact and significance to the plot. Like Roslyn mentioning "He Who Would Not Be Named" from the Book of Pythea, or the true nature of the "Head" people, or the purpose of the Temple of the Five, or going so far back as seeing the 12 constellations of Earth (fully recognizable in their contemporary configurations) in that holo-suite on Kobol, even though the "Earth" from where the original humans came was not the same as ours, was millions of years in the past, and never took into account stellar drift and other astronomical factors. In the end, NONE of those things were ever addressed or was found to be an indicator of the greater plot in any way and it left many viewers (myself, included) very irked, and should be taken as an example of how not to write for a show with large story arcs. Later on, it was either Ron Moore or David Eick (can't remember which) who basically admitted many of the things they threw in there randomly just to sound mysterious, spiritual and cool, but without any clue or intention as to how to resolve it within the established plot and just forget about them. In short - a complete, total cop-out.

I would expect more from the GoT writers and GRRM, so at this point I think I'll reserve judgment until we get into S5.
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Old July 1 2014, 01:48 AM   #2538
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Is Michelle Fairley still EVEN under contract for Game of Thrones? Two years without an appearance. Can she say "HELL NO" to playing someone under heavy zombie makeup who can barely manage to speak a couple of lines? I wouldn't be surprised if they recast the part.
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Old July 1 2014, 07:47 AM   #2539
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The problem with LS is, she does nothing that Wyman Manderly doesn't do already (i.e. killing Freys). Her story arc is redundant if we get the GNC.

Also, at this point, i wouldn't be surprised if the Ironborn subplot gets scrapped completely. Balon is still alive so we won't need a Kingsmoot. Dany already has her 93 or so ships thanks to Daario, so she won't need Victarion's fleet.

Balon is probably going to sit the Seastone Chair doing nothing of importance until the end of the show...
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Old July 1 2014, 10:25 AM   #2540
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

The Ironborn arc seems to be heading towards the finish of the main story arc - I doubt they will be ble to bin it completely.
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Old July 1 2014, 02:29 PM   #2541
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Michelle Fairley could say no to playing Lady Stoneheart, but she's said the part would be an interesting challenge to play and that she'd relish taking it on. If Stoneheart is in I think Fairley will play her. My guess is that Stoneheart will be included and that there'll be a slow build-up to a full reveal at the end of the fifth season when Stoneheart confronts Brienne, so Fairley would only be needed for a cameo in the fifth season with an expanded part in the sixth season. I think they'll try to keep her inclusion a surprise, with Fairley secreted in to film her appearance.

As for the Ironborn, I think a limited Kingsmoot and the introduction of Euron will be included, while Vic and his voyage to Meereen will be cut.
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Old July 1 2014, 03:32 PM   #2542
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

If Fairley reprises her role, I doubt it will be the voiceless zombie portrayed in the books. Tyrion's wound in the show is nowhere near as harsh - his scar is not all that deep and he still has an intact nose! I suspect that, in order to make Stoneheart more sympathetic and interactive as a character, Thoros' healing of her will likely repair some of the throat damage - not all, but enough to make her be able to talk.
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Old July 1 2014, 03:54 PM   #2543
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ayelbourne wrote: View Post
The problem with LS is, she does nothing that Wyman Manderly doesn't do already (i.e. killing Freys). Her story arc is redundant if we get the GNC.
We don't know what her story arc is yet. She will probably have a much larger role to play in Winds of Winter.
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Old July 1 2014, 10:40 PM   #2544
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
If Fairley reprises her role, I doubt it will be the voiceless zombie portrayed in the books. Tyrion's wound in the show is nowhere near as harsh - his scar is not all that deep and he still has an intact nose! I suspect that, in order to make Stoneheart more sympathetic and interactive as a character, Thoros' healing of her will likely repair some of the throat damage - not all, but enough to make her be able to talk.
I agree with the general sentiment, but Stoneheart talks in the books anyway. Not in her first appearance in the A Storm of Swords epilogue, but by the last Brienne chapter in A Feast for Crows (which is where I expect the show will pick her up if she appears at all) she can speak if she holds her throat together.
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Old July 2 2014, 12:54 AM   #2545
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Dream wrote: View Post
Is Michelle Fairley still EVEN under contract for Game of Thrones? Two years without an appearance. Can she say "HELL NO" to playing someone under heavy zombie makeup who can barely manage to speak a couple of lines? I wouldn't be surprised if they recast the part.
IMHO, recasting would be a disaster. Viewers need to be able to recognise her as Catelyn Stark without prompting. For that and other reasons, I think it's Michelle Fairley or GTFO.
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Old July 2 2014, 12:19 PM   #2546
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Something occured to me the other day when I was pondering Game of Thrones instead of being productive. The Targaryens invaded Westeros with just three dragons, and took everything except for Dorne.

But Valyria, before it fell, had loads of dragons, right? So why didn't they conquer the Seven Kingdoms centuries earlier? Despite clearly being expansionst, they never went further west than Dragonstone. Did they just think Westeros was too much trouble to bother with? Or does it have some sort of anti-dragon defense (that wasn't functioning when Aegon showed up).

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Old July 2 2014, 12:42 PM   #2547
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Tyrion asks himself the same question at one point.
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Old July 2 2014, 05:19 PM   #2548
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Stoo wrote: View Post
Something occured to me the other day when I was pondering Game of Thrones instead of being productive. The Targaryens invaded Westeros with just three dragons, and took everything except for Dorne.

But Valyria, before it fell, had loads of dragons, right? So why didn't they conquer the Seven Kingdoms centuries earlier? Despite clearly being expansionst, they never went further west than Dragonstone. Did they just think Westeros was too much trouble to bother with? Or does it have some sort of anti-dragon defense (that wasn't functioning when Aegon showed up).
The Valyrian Freehold was huge but I get the impression it was never very densely populated. Population and resource pressures are what drive serious attempts at foreign expansion, and I don't think they had any. I'll note that the cities we see in Essos seem to be rather wealthy. The weather is better by a good margin, and there is clearly lots of land to expand into, should one desire. Granted, Essos also has substantial deserts, but then you have vast areas like the Dothraki Sea which look ripe for cultivation, should anyone decide to bother. Westeros, by comparison, is crowded, dirty, poor, inhospitable.

The Doom of Valyria is what ultimately drove Targaryen expansion into Westeros.
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Old July 2 2014, 05:19 PM   #2549
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I'd imagine they knew enough about what lurked North of the wall and decided it was smarter to keep an ocean between themselves and the White Walkers. Whether they knew this and never bothered to invade, or found this out because they USED TO control that area and were pushed out/fled last time the Walkers came South, hard to say. Either would explain them avoiding Westeros, though. Or maybe it was just bad timing, and when they were ready to expand there, things had started to fall apart at home and they contracted the empire as it fell apart?

That's my two cents, at least.
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Old July 2 2014, 05:33 PM   #2550
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Stoo wrote: View Post
Something occured to me the other day when I was pondering Game of Thrones instead of being productive. The Targaryens invaded Westeros with just three dragons, and took everything except for Dorne.

But Valyria, before it fell, had loads of dragons, right? So why didn't they conquer the Seven Kingdoms centuries earlier? Despite clearly being expansionst, they never went further west than Dragonstone. Did they just think Westeros was too much trouble to bother with? Or does it have some sort of anti-dragon defense (that wasn't functioning when Aegon showed up).
Lack of interest.

The Valyrians never really bothered to acquire substantial territories outside the Freehold. The various cities were colonial outposts. They never annexed Slaver's Bay, for instance, which is directly adjacent to the Freehold, even after fighting several wars with Old Ghis that caused the downfall of that empire.
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