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Old March 12 2014, 09:05 AM   #2221
Captaindemotion
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

3chordboy wrote: View Post
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Why is it that I've liked Aiden Gillen in everything else I've seen him in but just find his delivery as Littlefinger a bit 'off'? Something about the delivery seems forced to me.
I rewatched the first 3 series back to back and his Welsh accent becomes more pronounced with each passing series. In the promos for the fourth series it's even stronger...almost evil Welsh. Could that be why?
He's actually Irish. I find his delivery in GOT a bit over the top and hammy, which he never is in contemporary dramas. Perhaps that's what bothers me.
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Old March 12 2014, 10:57 AM   #2222
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I've been thinking for a while now that seven seasons made more sense than eight. True Blood, a show with roughly the same audience that almost certainly has a smaller budget, went to seven with the last two shorter than usual, so even with GOT's success, eight might be a reach financially. And they might well want to minimize the amount they have to write without source material.

I find Gillen's performance unconvincing as well, which is a shame since it's such good casting in theory. I don't know if he thinks costume drama calls for that kind of staginess, or what.
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Old March 12 2014, 02:19 PM   #2223
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I think it perfectly suits the character. Littlefinger has survived and thrived by convincing everyone that he is more useful than he is threatening. He has only shown hints and barest moments of the true man behind his often-clownish public persona.
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Old March 12 2014, 02:52 PM   #2224
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

From the books I always thought that Varys and Littlefinger used their finery to mask who they really were. Varys glides around in silks all perfumed and supposedly servile. Littlefinger keeps his ledgers and wears his brocades and little bird pin. Therefore, the powerful families see LF as someone who is happy to be raised up from his smallholding and will go with the flow to keep what power they deign to give him. I think they believe the same of Varys. None of them really grasp the depth of either Varys' or LF's cunning. - Well maybe Kevan.

LF and Varys want to seem useful but ultimately harmless - then they can plot and scheme to their hearts desire.

I always loved LF's line in the books about Loras volunteering to be in the king's guard and how Loras thought it was Loras' idea but it was truly LF's.
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Old March 12 2014, 03:45 PM   #2225
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Littlefinger seems to be the mastermind that both started this war going and is also guiding it to his own ends.
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Old March 12 2014, 04:43 PM   #2226
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Well, to be fair the series itself builds Varys up to be this epic Spymaster but then later is subverts it when Kevan takes over. He realizes himself how easy it is to set up the Spy network Varys had, and one of Varys' tricks was always fooling everyone into thinking his job was a lot more impossible than it really was.

Same with LF, if you really analyze the series you see his great manipulations and victories are more due to him being INCREDIBLY lucky (and some pretty silly contrivances) rather than pure skill.
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Old March 12 2014, 08:56 PM   #2227
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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Per David Benioff in an interview with Entertainment Weekly, their plan is now definitively for seven seasons (indeed, they're claiming that's always what it ways, which I think is a retcon; but I wouldn't be surprised if HBO's number-crunchers did an estimate of cast retention costs for an eighth season and dissuaded them from it).

GRRM is so fucked.
The plan is for 7, but 8 are still possible, according to what they have been telling to Vanity Fair.

I suspect that the prospect of the renewal of actors' contracts for one more season is the real reason why HBO wants just 7 seasons for such a successful show. The more successful it is, the more money its main stars could ask for.

However, though I think most or all of AFFC/ADWD will be wrapped up by the end of season 5, I'm not sure that they will be able to wrap everything up in two more seasons, so I expect things like longer seasons (Oz, The Sopranos etc. have already done the trick of virtually having two seasons but calling them one season) and longer season finales or at least series finale (IIRC, the Oz series finale was something like an hour and a half instead of the usual 60-something minutes).

Anwar wrote: View Post
Well, to be fair the series itself builds Varys up to be this epic Spymaster but then later is subverts it when Kevan takes over. He realizes himself how easy it is to set up the Spy network Varys had, and one of Varys' tricks was always fooling everyone into thinking his job was a lot more impossible than it really was.

Same with LF, if you really analyze the series you see his great manipulations and victories are more due to him being INCREDIBLY lucky (and some pretty silly contrivances) rather than pure skill.
Not to mention that most of his rapid rise to the position of the Master of Coin - in addition to becoming the Lord Protector of Vale - was due to Lysa and her obsessive love for him since their childhood. Without her, he may not have been able to get anywhere.
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Old March 12 2014, 10:40 PM   #2228
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Anwar wrote: View Post
Well, to be fair the series itself builds Varys up to be this epic Spymaster but then later is subverts it when Kevan takes over. He realizes himself how easy it is to set up the Spy network Varys had, and one of Varys' tricks was always fooling everyone into thinking his job was a lot more impossible than it really was.
Actually, it's Cersei who thinks that Varys had tricked people into "believing he was irreplaceable," and that Qyburn is just as good. (Then a few pages later she's irritated that no one on her council remembers whether Balon Greyjoy had brothers, which Varys would have known.) Considering Cersei's general poor judgment, I'm not sure we're meant to agree with her there. Though certainly Varys cultivates a mystique, and since he's not actually working for the Iron Throne it's hard to gauge how good he would be at serving its interests.

Littlefinger has been lucky, certainly; part of the point of the series is that even the cleverest schemer needs luck to survive in a complex political environment. But he's also very good, with money and at manipulating people. Lysa's influence got him control of customs at Gulltown. It was the substantial increase in the income from that position that set him on the road to Master of Coin. And the game he plays to get Ned killed is pretty clever, though like any scheme in an invented narrative it only works because the author needs it to.

When I say that I feel Gillen is overacting, I'm not thinking about the character's public persona; in fact, I think the TV series doesn't do enough to make him seem genial and lightweight, so that Ned looks even stupider than he should for trusting the man. I'm thinking about how almost every line, including honest stuff like the big prostitute-training scene in season one or "Chaos is a ladder" last year, is delivered as an oration, rather than as spontaneous speech. YMMV.

On another topic: Martin has announced that his latest cross-genre anthology, Rogues, will include another excerpt from the excess material originally planned for the world book (the text of which is done, by the way, and on schedule for late 2014 publication). "The Rogue Prince, or, the King's Brother" is more Targaryen history, covering the years leading up to "The Princess and the Queen," which appeared in the earlier anthology Dangerous Women. Rogues is coming out on June 17th.

...If only he could produce main text as fast as he does chunks of backstory.
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Last edited by Brendan Moody; March 12 2014 at 11:01 PM.
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Old March 12 2014, 11:01 PM   #2229
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

^ That's exactly how I judge his performance Brendan. Or like when you said earlier that he seems to feel the need to be OTT because he's in a costume drama. His performances in urban drama like The Wire or Love/Hate were much more natural and understated.
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Old March 13 2014, 05:51 AM   #2230
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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[
I'm not sure that they will be able to wrap everything up in two more seasons, so I expect things like longer seasons (Oz, The Sopranos etc. have already done the trick of virtually having two seasons but calling them one season) and longer season finales or at least series finale (IIRC, the Oz series finale was something like an hour and a half instead of the usual 60-something minutes).
The producers have already stated many times that increasing the series' episode order per season is impossible.
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Old March 13 2014, 03:37 PM   #2231
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I'm starting to wonder if the TV series will have an actual ending.
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Old March 13 2014, 03:58 PM   #2232
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
DevilEyes wrote: View Post
[
I'm not sure that they will be able to wrap everything up in two more seasons, so I expect things like longer seasons (Oz, The Sopranos etc. have already done the trick of virtually having two seasons but calling them one season) and longer season finales or at least series finale (IIRC, the Oz series finale was something like an hour and a half instead of the usual 60-something minutes).
The producers have already stated many times that increasing the series' episode order per season is impossible.
Ordering 2 seasons worth of episodes in one block (perhaps shortened to 16 hours total) might save them from having to renegotiate contracts for an extra season though, if that is indeed a major factor. They haven't shied away from recasting yet though, and it isn't like Emilia Clarke or Kit Harrington are setting the world on fire with their riveting performances.
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Old March 13 2014, 05:35 PM   #2233
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Pretty sure actors' contracts are written with enough specificity that networks can't double or nearly double their commitment just by labeling production cycles differently. And recasting lead actors (some of whom are pretty popular, even if I can't see why) is a different proposition entirely from recasting bit (Tommen, Gregor Clegane) or supporting (Daario) players whose characters most viewers won't even remember without prompting. If they absolutely had to, I'm sure they'd try, but I don't see them risking it for the sake of extra episodes we have no reason to believe they actually want. They probably couldn't do the rest of the story as the books will/would tell it in two more seasons, but they're not going to have that story anyway. They're going to have the high points which they'll have to elaborate and link up themselves, and that is easily done in two years, just as Feast/Dance is boiling down to one.
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Old March 13 2014, 05:39 PM   #2234
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

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They haven't shied away from recasting yet though, and it isn't like Emilia Clarke or Kit Harrington are setting the world on fire with their riveting performances.
However much some fans are disenchanted with Emilia Clarke, she's one of the most visible public faces of the show and one of two cast members to be nominated for an Emmy so far. She would be one of the most difficult to get away with recasting.
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Old March 13 2014, 05:58 PM   #2235
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Venardhi wrote: View Post
They haven't shied away from recasting yet though...
The only actor that I think can't be recast is Dinklage, and I'm curious to see if his contract renegotiations (he says his contract is up with the sixth season, and he has a new HBO series in development) determine the fate of the series.
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