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Old July 22 2013, 06:06 PM   #1981
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

To have Jon or Dany on the iron throne would be too predictable, I hope both have more interesting fates than that. Especially because they're the two most traditional fantasy characters GRRM has written. It's why they're 2 of the most popular.
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Old July 22 2013, 09:09 PM   #1982
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I think Jon will become the King beyond the Wall...
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Old July 22 2013, 11:17 PM   #1983
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

That's pretty much a defunct office now. The Wildlings are done as a distinct culture, whatever happens. They've crossed the Wall and sworn allegiance to the throne, and are talking about settling. That's a mammoth cultural shift.
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Old July 23 2013, 03:06 PM   #1984
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I assume Jon will stay with the Night's Watch, or leave the physical plain of existence after fulfilling his messianic duties as Azor Ahai.
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Old July 23 2013, 05:14 PM   #1985
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I suspect neither the watch or the wall will exist by the end of the series.
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Old July 23 2013, 05:16 PM   #1986
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Hopefully The Windows of Winter ends with the Wall falling.

Though I have a horrible feeling it will end with Victarion and Dany arriving at Meereen.
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Old July 23 2013, 05:26 PM   #1987
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Victarion arrives at Meereen in one of the already-released preview chapters from the beginning of the book, so you don't need to worry about that. Dany may take longer... if she goes back to Meereen at all, which I'm beginning to wonder about.
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Old July 23 2013, 05:33 PM   #1988
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Ah, I aint read 'em just yet in case they're the last A Song of Ice and Fire we ever get. I'm fairly sure we'll probably get Winds of Winter. The final book though? I have my very strong doubts.

The show is ended this story. Bank on it.
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Old July 23 2013, 05:45 PM   #1989
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I don't really doubt he'll finish the series-- even if it takes three more books written at the creeping pace of the last dozen years, he won't even be 80, which isn't really that old by the standards of modern millionaire medicine. Barring a miracle the show will get there first, but the books will be along eventually. Unless Martin gets hit by a bus or something, but that could happen with any series at any time.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:05 PM   #1990
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

^^^ He ain't the healthiest person in the world, though, God bless him. I wouldn't wish an untimely end on anyone, but I fear his blood-to-Crisco ratio may be his undoing before the finale is complete. I really hope he has an outline written down in a vault somewhere that can be opened and used (at the very least, by the show), to bring about a decent as-intended-by-the-writer ending. GRRM designating an heir-apparent to finishing the written stories may also be a smart idea as well.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:07 PM   #1991
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I hope George lives until a ripe old age but given that Mel Smith, James Gandolfini and Dennis Farina have all recently died before hitting 70, I wouldn't be so sanguine about the link between wealth and longevity.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:13 PM   #1992
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Martin said that no one will finish the books if he, God forbid, dies before he could finish them. The story will die with him.

I think TWOW will be out someday, late 2015 at the earliest, but I too seriously doubt that we'll see the end of the story in the books, not because of health issues, but because he'll completely lose any interest he still has in writing when the TV show catches up with him and finishes the story before him. The ending of the TV show will probably be the canon.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:15 PM   #1993
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

George has stated a hundred times in interviews that he can only write at home. Due to having become a megastar in the past 2 years, he's never at home. He recently stated he was only a quarter of the way through the next book, which is likely in of itself an exaggeration judging by his past claims on the progress on A Dance With Dragons.

I think there's a very fair chance the books won't be finished, and to save myself some serious disappointment I'm going along with that for now.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:31 PM   #1994
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

He recently stated he was only a quarter of the way through the next book, which is likely in of itself an exaggeration judging by his past claims on the progress on A Dance With Dragons.
And two years have passed since ADWD was released. Extrapolation is a tricky thing and pretty worthless when dealing with writing, but 1/4 of a book in 2 years doesn't sound particularly good. Especially if part of this are the chapters he cut from ADWD which will probably be rewritten beyond recognition by the time he finishes the book.
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Old July 23 2013, 06:38 PM   #1995
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Obviously wealth isn't a guarantee of anything; if you have a sudden massive heart attack (Smith, Gandolfini) or a pulmonary embolism as a cancer complication (Farina) treatment options are limited. My point is that for treatable, non-sudden illness, wealth opens a great many doors. It won't necessarily save you; Robert Jordan didn't even make it to the median life expectancy for someone with his illness. But let's not pretend that naming a few rich people who died young disproves a connection between wealth and longevity. Or, for that matter, that being visibly overweight automatically creates a major health risk. If we want to be morbid about it, anyone can die at any time with no warning. I also doubt that, after committing twenty years of his life and counting to this project, he'll suddenly get bored because a stripped-down version of the story is told in another medium.

But if people would rather be pessimistic, I'm fine with that; I've spent the past two years encouraging people not to imagine that The Winds of Winter would come out before 2015. Even then, though, I don't see any reason to doubt the quarter-done claim; he had enough pages, including drafts, for that to be true at this time last year. I don't know whether "a quarter done" is based on his usual measure of (nominally) finalized chapters only. He consistently misestimated how much time it would take him to complete Feast and Dance, which is why he stopped making such estimates, but he's never made an exaggerated claim about how much was done that I know of.

The quarter-done quote, by the way, came at a TV show red-carpet event in mid-March, and Martin didn't start work on The Winds of Winter until early 2012. So it's more like 1/4 in 1.25 years, discounting the stuff left over from Dance. At that pace, Winds would take about as long to finish as Dance, which had even more leftovers to start with. To be frank, though, even that's misleading, since much of Martin's work in 2012 was on finishing his contribution to the world book, for which he produced about 250,000 words, five times what was originally intended, so much that even after splitting some of it off into a novella for his Dangerous Women anthology, more had to be put aside for use in a possible future encyclopedia-type volume.
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Last edited by Brendan Moody; July 23 2013 at 06:58 PM. Reason: math fail
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