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Old June 11 2013, 02:26 AM   #1636
Shurik
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

I can't believe how much filler we've had this season at the expense of crucial character beats like Jaime's dream. So many pointless scenes going over the same stuff. Joffrey is getting married? Yeah, I fucking get it. Now can the plot move forward? Where the fuck even is Mace Tyrell? Well why introduce him when we can have pointless Theon torture sequences. Every week! Ones that aren't even half as interesting as the actual Reek plot in A Clash of Kings we should have had last season.
All of this is because the showrunners should've condensed the material more, ending the season on Joffrey's death or even further. ASOS is the best book in the series, but the best and the most eventful part of it starts with the Red Wedding. Which means S4 will be beyond epic.
It's been about 2.5 years since I last read ASOS, but what does Mace Tyrell actually do in the story, besides just being there and trying to look important? He's not smart like Grandma Tyrell, not colourful like Oberyn Martell and generally not that important in the grand scheme of things. I can't see him being more than guest role, mostly just sitting on the background.
Arya kills her first man a year too late
As Ayelborne pointed out, her killing someone who was responsible for the single most horrific thing she had ever seen in her life made much more sense than killing some random guy in Harrenhall.

To be honest, I never was a fan of Arya in the books (or Starks in general, for that matter), but Maisie Williams being so great in her role and working so well with everyone she gets paired with made me like her TV version. Her being older than in the book also works better.
But the dumbass casual audience will still whoop and declare every episode as "Epic win!" if tits are shown.
The critical and ratings success of this show has nothing to do with tits. It is a well written and well done show based on good source material. It is more faithful to the source material than 99% of adaptations I've seen.

For the more recent example - have you seen the World Without End mini-series, an adaptation of Ken Follet's novel about 14th century English town? Those who did the adaptation didn't even get the date of the Black Death plague right, that's how much they didn't care. None of characters even remotely resembled their book counterparts. The acting ranged from bland to extremely bad. It looked very cheap. But maybe I'm just spoiled by GoT and expect the same production values from every period show.
Wait, they didn't include Jeyne in Season 1!? Fuuuuuuuck.
What for? Why include a very minor character who will be needed in the late S4 at the earliest, when no one will remember who the hell she was? Or would you prefer her having invented scenes of brothel training and such for three whole seasons, just like Theon had in this one?
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Old June 11 2013, 12:05 PM   #1637
Nagisa Furukawa
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Anwar wrote: View Post
Dany's visions in the House of the Undying would've been too obvious in the visual mediums to the audience.
Some of them, yes. Not using A SINGLE, NOT A SINGLE, NOT ONE vision from HotU was just insane. If you'd have told me before S2 aired, that *nothing* from the book's visions and images would be used in the show's version, I'd have said you don't give the showrunners near enough credit as adapters. As it, uh, was just like that, they should've just gotten rid of the whole damn scene if they weren't gonna use anything of use actually from it.
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Old June 11 2013, 04:00 PM   #1638
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Game of Thrones Best Drama at Critic's Choice Awards:



http://blog.seattlepi.com/thepudgere...or-best-drama/
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Old June 11 2013, 06:14 PM   #1639
Anwar
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
As it, uh, was just like that, they should've just gotten rid of the whole damn scene if they weren't gonna use anything of use actually from it.
They did show us important things in the visions she saw this time around though:

1) (Possibly) Snow on the Iron Throne which might spoil the entire series.

2) Throne Room destroyed either by cold weather (White Walker invasion) or ash (from Dragon fire, her dragons attacking).

3) Right after we see the ruined Throne, we see her at the Wall. Kind of making it clear there's some connection.

4) We see a Targaryen child when one parent is not a Targaryen, and it doesn't have white hair. Another implication.
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Old June 11 2013, 06:21 PM   #1640
Brendan Moody
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

People can strain to come up with interesting interpretations if they want, but it's pretty plain that the only thing in the producers' minds with the House of the Undying was achieving a vague eerie effect while using sets they already had and providing a fanservice cameo.
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Old June 11 2013, 11:41 PM   #1641
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

This thread is so damn refreshing . Love the show but sometimes I'm screaming at the TV. House of the Undying is one of the most crucial moments of the entire book series.

Utterly pointless filler in the show.

Without GRRM's atmospheric writing style, I find Dany's plot pretty dull.
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Old June 12 2013, 05:17 AM   #1642
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
People can strain to come up with interesting interpretations if they want, but it's pretty plain that the only thing in the producers' minds with the House of the Undying was achieving a vague eerie effect while using sets they already had and providing a fanservice cameo.
I disagree; I thought it had some fantastic imagery and I want to hold out until we see where things go before making a call on how much foreshadowing is in that scene (I'm guessing a lot).
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Old June 12 2013, 07:53 AM   #1643
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
People can strain to come up with interesting interpretations if they want, but it's pretty plain that the only thing in the producers' minds with the House of the Undying was achieving a vague eerie effect while using sets they already had and providing a fanservice cameo.
It's obviously not. It's firstly a rather blunt hint at the series' endgame - winter coats the country and the walkers come down (in itself, the same beat the show's hit since literally the pilot)... but more importantly, being able to leave the image of Drogo and being able to say goodbye to him has a certain amount of strength to it as a dramatic beat. The House of the Undying in the books isn't just a bunch of clues for people to obsess over, it's a surreal headscape where Dany has to keep her wits about her, and being able to move on from Drogo was part of that.
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Utterly pointless filler in the show.

Without GRRM's atmospheric writing style, I find Dany's plot pretty dull.
Dany's plot was pretty weak in book two (frigging ages just screwing around in the desert) so it wasn't a lot for them to work with. It picks up again in book three, which is the best part of her arc, and the TV show has noticeably improved with it.
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Old June 12 2013, 03:11 PM   #1644
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Keep straining, guys. If you liked the scene, that's great (seriously), and of course what the writers did reflects the obvious narrative endgame of the series on a basic level. I didn't mean to suggest they had literally no intention to point toward the future. But there's nothing new there, in contrast to the sustained, meaningful headtrip from the books, and suggestions like "they're setting up Jon's parentage... in which the show has shown no interest" and "she has to move on from Drogo... which hasn't been a factor all season" don't pass the sniff test as serious dramatic structure. They took the general shape of the scene, and did something cheap, fan-pleasing, and abbreviated with it. Probably they told themselves bringing back Jason Momoa was about Daenerys' choice between past and future, but they didn't care enough about that to make it meaningful within the context of the season.

Dany's arc in book two offers plenty to work with... if you're interested in making a fantasy series. Which, apart from sexy witches, magic zombies, and kewl dragons, Benioff and Weiss aren't. So they threw together something based on their own notions of fantasy storytelling, and it was weak. Even granting that the Qarth of the books would have been difficult to execute on screen (which I don't, though they might have had to divert some of that money they blew on making the Blackwater OMG MOVIE-STYLE EPIC), that's not the source material's fault.
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Old June 12 2013, 03:15 PM   #1645
DalekJim
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Kegg wrote: View Post
Dany's plot was pretty weak in book two (frigging ages just screwing around in the desert)
I remember there being a mere one chapter in the desert? And that chapter included Jorah Mormont giving an account of his tragic backstory so it was actually a good, interesting chapter.
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Old June 12 2013, 10:42 PM   #1646
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethe...-and-more.html

"Game of Thrones" has Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jamie), Peter Dinklage (Tyrion) and Kit Harington (Jon Snow) in contention for supporting actor

Emilia Clarke (Daenerys), Natalie Dormer (Margaery), Michelle Fairley (Catelyn), Lena Headey (Cersei) and Sibel Kekilli (Shae) on the ballot for supporting actress.

Ciaran Hinds (Mance Rayder) is in guest actor and Diana Rigg (Olenna Tyrell) is in guest actress.

Given the massive cast, that leaves out a slew of key players including Charles Dance (Tywin), Jack Gleeson (Joffrey), Maisie Williams (Arya) and Sophie Turner (Sansa). And beloved characters Robb Stark, Theon, Brienne, Stannis, Melisandre, Davos, Ygritte... (Apologies to the actors, but we could be here all day.)
I'm rooting for Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Peter Dinklage, and Michelle Fairley. Just being at least nominated would be an honor.

Also LOL @ Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke being on the ballot.

Last edited by Dream; June 12 2013 at 11:05 PM.
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Old June 12 2013, 10:58 PM   #1647
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Charles Dance and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau have owned this season in the acting stakes.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:16 PM   #1648
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Charles Dance and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau have owned this season in the acting stakes.
indeed. CD is just the biggest badass on TV at the moment and I found myself shocked at how I ended up feeling sorry for the Jamie character as this season progressed. I ended up being disappointed when he didn't appear in an episode.
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Old June 12 2013, 11:18 PM   #1649
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

Jaime's monologue about the truth behind the Mad King's death is my favourite scene from the whole show. Amazing acting.

"By what right, does the wolf judge the lion?"
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Old June 13 2013, 12:43 AM   #1650
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I remember there being a mere one chapter in the desert? And that chapter included Jorah Mormont giving an account of his tragic backstory so it was actually a good, interesting chapter.
I could swear there's more. There's definitely a couple before she gets to Qarth (and her time in Qarth involves a lot of trying to get stuff done that goes nowhere.)

It's one of the two stories in A Clash of Kings that is clearly suffering from Martin's desire to expand the length of the novel series. The other one is Arya's.
Brendan Moody wrote: View Post
and "she has to move on from Drogo... which hasn't been a factor all season"
She's never had the choice. She could stay with Drogo in that tent, in a place of peace, and not have to worry about all the crazy shit she's endured - this is the first time the series really gives her that out. But she doesn't, and Drogo respects her for it.
Dany's arc in book two offers plenty to work with... if you're interested in making a fantasy series. Which, apart from sexy witches, magic zombies, and kewl dragons, Benioff and Weiss aren't.
This feels as much a criticism as Martin as it does D&D, since he uses generic fantasy set dressing and has it lurk at the edges of his historical fiction imitation until he needs to call it up for a scene or two, and when he does it's a dragon or a giant or a zombie or something else typically not that unusual for the genre.
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