RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,685
Posts: 5,430,496
Members: 24,830
Currently online: 408
Newest member: Old Man 51


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate DTI: Watching The Clock
Outstanding 93 58.49%
Above Average 44 27.67%
Average 13 8.18%
Below Average 3 1.89%
Poor 6 3.77%
Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 6 2011, 11:29 PM   #121
Plaristes
Lieutenant
 
Location: Notre Dame, IN
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Loved it! Thrawn said this is Destiny-good. I disagree. This book is better than Destiny! I'll have to think about it for a while, but WTC is a serious contender for my favorite Trek novel ever. The explanations/retcons for various onscreen time travel stories are great and I loved the references to other written events, especially the Millennium trilogy and the Aegis material.
I only have two complaints.


__________________
"Begs the question" does not mean "raises the question."
"Adaption" is not an English word.
Plaristes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 6 2011, 11:48 PM   #122
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Tirius wrote: View Post
CaptainDonovin wrote: View Post
One of the things I'm loving about this that the book reminds me of KRAD's Articles of the Federation which I also loved. Its Trek but different since we're not only exploring (in this case timelines) but also a bit of the inner workings of a different branch of the UFP.
I had the same feeling, although I didn't stop to notice it until Bacco turned up. It also shares some of Articles' narrative format, in that Clock also isn't a continuous story but a bit episodic, following the storyline over a longer period with short gaps in between and touching on various events happening in the Federation as it goes along.
Articles was definitely a major inspiration for me here. I even talked about it that way at Shore Leave last year, saying that if Articles was The West Wing in the Trek universe, DTI:WTC was like an FBI procedural in the Trek universe. Although unlike AotF, WTC did end up with more of an overarching plotline.


Plaristes wrote: View Post
Loved it! Thrawn said this is Destiny-good. I disagree. This book is better than Destiny! I'll have to think about it for a while, but WTC is a serious contender for my favorite Trek novel ever.
Wow. Speechless.


I only have two complaints.


To the former point:


To the latter point:
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2011, 09:42 PM   #123
TerraUnam
Commander
 
TerraUnam's Avatar
 
Location: United Earth
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Question Christopher, why did you feel motivated to explain humanity's Great Jump from the dumps of the Post-Atomic Horror, WWIII and the Eugenics Wars to the Federation in terms of the influence of time travellers?
__________________
Fate protects fools, little children and ships named Enterprise.
But not ships named Columbia.
TerraUnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2011, 11:07 PM   #124
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Are we not coding spoilers anymore? Isn't it a bit premature for that?

Anyway, it was Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels that explained humanity's technological progress in the Trek universe's late 20th century as a result of reverse-engineering of alien technology left over from incidents like "Little Green Men" and The Voyage Home. The only thing I added to that was the suggestion (which, I should point out, was never conclusively verified within the novel) that
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 02:22 AM   #125
Plaristes
Lieutenant
 
Location: Notre Dame, IN
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Christopher wrote: View Post
To the latter point:

Another question:
__________________
"Begs the question" does not mean "raises the question."
"Adaption" is not an English word.
Plaristes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 02:42 AM   #126
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

This one's not worth spoilering:

Plaristes wrote: View Post
Another question:
I didn't notice, but were there any references to "The Counterclock Incident"?
Oh, gods, no. Stupidest episode ever, totally incoherent. Even "Threshold" made more sense.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 05:47 AM   #127
Elias Vaughn
Captain
 
Elias Vaughn's Avatar
 
Location: Dead. Or in the Celestial Temple. One of the two.
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread



Fantastic read, if a bit over my head sometimes. But that's really only an excuse to read it again soon, so no big loss.

Last edited by Elias Vaughn; May 9 2011 at 03:08 AM. Reason: Just noticed the messed up spoiler tag
Elias Vaughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 10:37 AM   #128
trash80
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: UK
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Just finished, enjoyed the book which i thought was really good though did take some time to get going (no pun intended).

One question though, i haven't come across the Aegis before have they cropped up in Trek before? From some of the earlier comments it seems so.
trash80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 02:53 PM   #129
Astraea
Commander
 
Astraea's Avatar
 
Location: Buried under a pile of work.
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

trash80 wrote: View Post
Just finished, enjoyed the book which i thought was really good though did take some time to get going (no pun intended).

One question though, i haven't come across the Aegis before have they cropped up in Trek before? From some of the earlier comments it seems so.
TOS, "Assignment: Earth." Also seen in TrekLit; the Eugenics Wars books are the first that come to mind.
__________________
Avatar credit: wicked_visions on livejournal.
Astraea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 05:25 PM   #130
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Gary Seven was introduced in "Assignment: Earth," but his organization wasn't named. The name "Aegis" was coined by Howard Weinstein in issues 49-50 of DC's second Star Trek comic book series, in which he also established the idea that the Aegis is involved in protecting the timeline from alteration by rival factions (an idea which may have been based on Roddenberry's original A:E pilot proposal). Greg Cox picked up these ideas in his Gary Seven novels Assignment: Eternity and The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh Parts 1 & 2.

By the way, I explained the origins of the term "Aegis" in the Acknowledgments at the end of the book, specifically the last paragraph on p. 492. A lot of questions about the concepts in the book have their answers in the Acknowledgments.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 06:44 PM   #131
trash80
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: UK
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

Thanks for that, the Gary 7 TOS episode is one of the few i've never seen. Should have checked the Acknowledgements but thought it would be just "And i'd like to thank my agent..."
trash80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 09:26 PM   #132
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

cal888 wrote: View Post
I didn't like the beginning of the book basically trying to retcon almost all of the time travel we've seen in different movies and episodes to fit the book's concepts of the time continuum (plus the Guardian of Forever comments etc came across more like a negative episode review). The book just didn't "feel" like Star Trek to me either (I realize this is hard to quantify and I probably should substantiate my argument, but I'd have to say it came across more as a hard SF novel with some Star Trek elements thrown in instead of the converse).
I, on the other hand, loved the chance to get to look at the Federation from a different point of view than we usually see in Starfleet characters. I loved seeing the Federation from the POV of political leaders in Articles of the Federation, and I loved seeing the Federation from the POV of a civilian law enforcement agency -- albeit a weird, science fiction-y law enforcement agency -- in Watching the Clock. But, hey, different strokes for different folks.

You're looking at it the wrong way.









__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2011, 10:16 PM   #133
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I should point out that the above dispute is rooted in a misreading of the text. I didn't actually specify that Clare's family reacted negatively to her discomfort at the idea of a male descendant marrying another man. What I actually wrote is that they were "mystified" that she was more uneasy with the idea of a marriage between two humans of the same sex than she was with the idea of a human marrying an alien of the opposite sex. "Mystified" is not a description of a value judgment, merely surprise and puzzlement at the relative intensity of her reactions to the two things.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2011, 08:03 AM   #134
RTOlson
Rear Admiral
 
RTOlson's Avatar
 
Location: Chico, Calif.
View RTOlson's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

I liked this book, I thought it built to a great climax that made sense (even with all the timey-whimey stuff).

I liked how the DTI agents are mostly humdrum bureaucrats toiling away and how Lucsly used that to their advantage at the end of the novel. I reminded me in a way of David Brin's "Foundation's Triumph" about why the Foundationers needed to bring down the Galactic Empire — there was a class of seemingly unimportant Imperial bureaucrats that may devise solutions that run contrary to the future and greater Second Empire.

I liked how the DTI referenced Asimov's "The End of Eternity." I imagine it might be cited as a cautionary tale about meddling with timelines.

Oh, and speaking of references — was the Verity a reference to Verity Lambert?

Finally, I was curious about:


Anyway, thanks for a great book.
__________________
"Remember, George: no man is a failure who has friends." Clarence -- It's a Wonderful Life | My blog

Last edited by RTOlson; May 9 2011 at 08:04 AM. Reason: Wordplay!
RTOlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2011, 02:38 PM   #135
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek: DTI: Watching The Clock Review Thread

RTOlson wrote: View Post
Oh, and speaking of references — was the Verity a reference to Verity Lambert?
Yup. And that was far from the only Doctor Who reference.

Finally, I was curious about:


Anyway, thanks for a great book.
You're welcome! And thanks for thinking of it that way!
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reviewpoll_v1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.