RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,439
Posts: 5,507,381
Members: 25,133
Currently online: 506
Newest member: jokerone

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 29 2011, 04:27 AM   #1
Gojira
Commodore
 
Gojira's Avatar
 
Location: Stompin' on Tokyo
By Any Other Name

I watched this episode this past weekend and all in all I do like it except for one thing.

When the crush the block that was Yeoman Thompson at the beginning of the episode it really enrages me and pisses me off. I think because it is a female they kill that makes it seem very unjust. yeah I don't know why I have this double standard but I don't think I would have been as upset if a man had been killed instead.
__________________
My Science Fiction-Fantasy movie review Blog: http://foleyfunfilmfacts.wordpress.com/
Gojira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 04:34 AM   #2
Cookies and Cake
Admiral
 
Location: North America
Re: By Any Other Name

So is this a fault with the episode, or is it something else?
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Cookies and Cake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 07:12 AM   #3
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: By Any Other Name

That's one of the things that endeared me to the episode from the get-go: they didn't hesitate with killing the cute girl and leaving the black boy alive merely because dramatic convention would call for doing the reverse. Plus, they didn't get their two polyhedrons mixed up - the one they crush really is the one that originally was the girl.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 01:45 PM   #4
Rom's Sehlat
Fleet Captain
 
Rom's Sehlat's Avatar
 
Re: By Any Other Name

Those were terrorists. If I were Kirk, I would execute the whole lot of them. Once you kill somebody, you're done for in my book. It's a good thing I'm not a starship captain...
Rom's Sehlat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 02:29 PM   #5
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: By Any Other Name

Timo wrote: View Post
That's one of the things that endeared me to the episode from the get-go: they didn't hesitate with killing the cute girl and leaving the black boy alive merely because dramatic convention would call for doing the reverse. Plus, they didn't get their two polyhedrons mixed up - the one they crush really is the one that originally was the girl.

Timo Saloniemi
Exactly! They did the unconventional things which was very dramatic. And they also managed not to get the two mixed up. Awesome!
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 02:40 PM   #6
SchwEnt
Fleet Captain
 
Re: By Any Other Name

As far as not mixing them up...

They had a 50/50 shot at getting the right polyhedron.
How do we know it was attention to detail or a lucky pick?
SchwEnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 02:41 PM   #7
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: By Any Other Name

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
As far as not mixing them up...

They had a 50/50 shot at getting the right polyhedron.
How do we know it was attention to detail or a lucky pick?
Who cares? It worked out and it's a nice touch to the story...for those obsessing about such detail.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 02:43 PM   #8
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: By Any Other Name

This was the earliest example of a sci fi show not doing the obvious that I can remember and I think it is one of my favourite TOS moments. We do have double standards and it does, on some level, feel that little bit more unjust because it was the young yeoman instead of the security guard who bought the farm. The fact that the guy was black and it was filmed at a time when the civil rights movement was going on gave the scene an additional layer of deliciousness.

On another level, it highlighted the fact that the Captain will sometimes make decisions that lead crewmen to their deaths and that these crewmen are real people and not just nameless, voiceless redshirts. It prevents us from being desensitised to the crew deaths.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 02:56 PM   #9
SchwEnt
Fleet Captain
 
Re: By Any Other Name

I agree this eps took the unexpected course by killing off the cute white chick instead of the black guy.

But I wonder if they weren't hedging their bets a little bit.

The two were reduced to identical polyhedrons first, then randomly tossed and one selected for destruction, seemingly arbitrarily.

As if to say... they looked identical, couldn't tell them apart, we didn't know which one we really killed (and even THAT is a statement, really)

But what if Rojan (a white guy) simply stood the two up against a wall in human form, and consciously selected the white chick to die over the black guy, rather than random selection.

Would that have made a difference?
SchwEnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 02:59 PM   #10
Botany Bay
Commodore
 
Botany Bay's Avatar
 
Location: shores of Australia
Re: By Any Other Name

Rom's Sehlat wrote: View Post
Those were terrorists. If I were Kirk, I would execute the whole lot of them. Once you kill somebody, you're done for in my book. It's a good thing I'm not a starship captain...
I vaguely remember reading about an earlier draft of this episode where Shea agreed with you, and decided to go on some kind of Die Hard mission to take down the Kelvans.

I think he ended up meeting a nasty end on the hangar deck in that draft - Rojan ordered the doors opened with him inside there, if I remember correctly.

Another great touch in this episode : when going through the barrier, Spock repeats his lines from Where No Man Has Gone Before : "Density negative. Radiation negative. Energy negative". Nice work from the great D.C. Fontana and Jerome Bixby.
Botany Bay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 03:02 PM   #11
GNDN
Commodore
 
GNDN's Avatar
 
Location: Geosyncrhonous orbit over NJ
Re: By Any Other Name

As characters, they were both expendable Red Shirts of the Week, so it is actually fascinating how the protracted method of execution and the social and cultural mores attached to their respected gender and race affect the scene.

From the Kelvan's point of view, it was most probably a completely random choice (right hand or left hand). From the characters' point of view, Kirk and crew are appalled at the death of ANY crewmember (no indication as to how well either character was known on a personal or professional level) And as an audience of events taking place in the 23rd century, we have no stake in either character (would be an entirely different situation if the security guard were replaced by Chekov or Scotty)

So we are left with 20th or 21st century sensibilities and the knowledge that the outcome was scripted, in the 1960s. Any weight we attach to the event and the result illuminates American culture of the late 20th century more than anything else.

Was the show toying with audience expectations and conventions? Did the fact that both characters were expendable add to the danger of the scene since one or both could be killed at any time? And who did the audience root for, or consider more expendable? The choice says more about the viewer. The result says much about the writer.

Always a tense scene for me to watch, and definitely cool that they kept track of which was which. Thankfully no one thought to shade them different colors for any arbitrary reason. Half the audience probably lost track of which was which, and the other half waited to know if the actors and director actually paid attention. Powerful moment worthy of discussion.
GNDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 03:06 PM   #12
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: By Any Other Name

It would have been even more impactful if Grace Lee Whitney had stayed on the show and she had been the yeoman who was killed.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2011, 03:08 PM   #13
GNDN
Commodore
 
GNDN's Avatar
 
Location: Geosyncrhonous orbit over NJ
Re: By Any Other Name

^Agreed. Happy that the character ultimately got to live on, but I've always thought that her disappearance in Charlie X would have been a highly dramatic exit had she not been restored.
GNDN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1 2011, 01:50 AM   #14
skylark14
Lieutenant
 
Re: By Any Other Name

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
We do have double standards and it does, on some level, feel that little bit more unjust because it was the young yeoman instead of the security guard who bought the farm.
I can remember feeling more anguish following the Challenger disaster in the 80s for the schoolteacher who died. The crew members had been trained for the task and had to be aware that their lives were in constant jeopardy. On the other hand, she was a schoolteacher who won a contest for her place on the mission. I'm sure she thought she wouldn't be there unless it was perfectly safe no matter how many times they told her of the dangers involved. So, yes, I think we do have double standards always and that's a normal thing. The context always makes it hurt either more or less.

I remember watching this and being stunned myself when the man reappeared instead of the girl. As a t.v. viewer in those days, I knew a show would always do the expected thing, and they almost never proved me wrong. It wasn't like today when you can expect that they're going to go for the unexpected or most painful thing. As for why it was more painful, the man was a security guard, the woman was basically a clerk. Possible death was in his job description; in hers, not so much. Also, at that time, it was more unusual to see a woman in physical danger as there weren't yet women in the field in military or police work. I can remember being stunned at first, but then feeling that it made it seem much more real.
skylark14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 1 2011, 02:10 AM   #15
plynch
Commodore
 
plynch's Avatar
 
Location: Outer Graceland
View plynch's Twitter Profile
Re: By Any Other Name

And in the end, the E crew doesn't defeat/kill the Kelvans - they befriend an "other" and will set them up with a nice little planet somewhere. No Kill I.
__________________
Author of Live Like Louis! Inspirational Stories from the Life of Louis Armstrong, http://livelikelouis.com
plynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.