RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,708
Posts: 5,214,093
Members: 24,208
Currently online: 925
Newest member: Robert james


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 9 2011, 04:28 PM   #1
Newspaper Taxi
Captain
 
Newspaper Taxi's Avatar
 
Location: The Midwest
Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member?

While Seven of Nine might have partially functioned as eye candy, it's also important to note that she was nuanced and detail character. She had a backstory that was both specific and interesting and was constantly trying to grow and change; she was a dynamic character. The only characters quite as complex as Seven were The EMH and perhaps Janeway -- although Janeway suffered from inconsistent writing.

So for the last couple of days I've been thinking: Why not jettison more members of the main cast in order to replace them with more interesting characters? I figure they must have figured out how to create an interesting character with Seven so I would have been okay with them also getting rid of at least Kim and maybe Chakotay and Tuvok. Maybe even Neelix. It's pretty telling when minor characters like Suder and guest characters like Barclay are more interesting than your own cast. (Enterprise had a similar problem with Shran -- should have gotten rid of Mayweather and put Shran at the helm, I say!)

I should say that I'm not anti-Kes in anyway; In fact, I was quite fond of Kes. I would have rather seen Kes for the rest of the seven years instead of Kim as she would have eventually had to face up to the limit of her lifespan which would have lead to all sorts of plotlines -- at least hypothetically. Knowing Voyager's track record with potential I know they probably wouldn't have started aging her until the second to last episode and then had her die in Endgame or something like that. But I wouldn't be against the removal of static characters in place of more interesting ones.

So what do you think? Good idea, bad idea? I know that it was unlikely ever to happen given contracts and TV show politics -- but assume the suits could have found loopholes and ways to replace main cast members. (They had a deflecter dish installed in the office, or something.)
__________________
"Circular logic will only make you dizzy, Doctor!" -- Peri
Newspaper Taxi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 05:04 PM   #2
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

The cast's size was something of a problem to begin with, especially since they did cast some bad actors (Beltran and Wang, first and foremost).

The Central Cast should've been Janeway, Chakotay, Tuvok, Paris and the Doctor. Kim, Kes, Neelix and Torres should've been the Secondary cast who didn't have to appear all the time.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 05:14 PM   #3
BlobVanDam
Fleet Captain
 
BlobVanDam's Avatar
 
Location: Australia
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to BlobVanDam Send a message via Yahoo to BlobVanDam
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

With a new casting decision, you run the risk of someone equally as bad, although just dropping the character altogether might have been fine. Personally I like most of the characters, so I wouldn't have wanted them dropping Neelix, for example, but they could have tightened the cast a bit. I can't say that the show would have suffered greatly from the loss of Harry Kim or even Chakotay.
Then maybe people would stop complaining about the crap lead characters being ignored for the good ones.
BlobVanDam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 07:13 PM   #4
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

Newspaper Taxi wrote: View Post
Why not jettison more members of the main cast in order to replace them with more interesting characters?
IMHO, lazy writers, mainly.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 08:52 PM   #5
Smellincoffee
Fleet Captain
 
Smellincoffee's Avatar
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
View Smellincoffee's Twitter Profile
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

Newspaper Taxi wrote: View Post
Why not jettison more members of the main cast in order to replace them with more interesting characters?
Casting contracts, possibly.
__________________
DS9 CapCon Relaunch!
"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.." - Commander Montgomery Scott.
Smellincoffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 10:27 PM   #6
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

There were no reason to get rid of any of them because Voyager had the best and most interesting characters of all Trek series.

None of the actors were bad. It was all about the writers not being skilled enough to write for all of them.

The cast of Voyager weren't too big. Compare with DS9 which had more main characters than Voyager.

I watched Voyager because I liked the characters. I did stop watching the show when my favorite characters were dumped for reasons I couldn't accept. Still I liked the characters so much that I started to watch Voyager again, despite my misgivings. But when they dragged my favorite character back just to destroy and humiliate the character, I decided that enough is enough. If they had started wasting more main characters early on, then I would have stopped watching it very soon.

One reason that I refuse to read or accept the ongoing story in the "Voyager relaunch" books is the constant wasting of main characters who I've learned to like from the start and replaced them with no-nos who I don't care about at all.

I don't like the current "doom and gloom" scenario which I find in many series, the SF-series in particular. That's why I refuse to watch them.

Not to mention that in my stories, the original main characters of Voyager are alive and well. Why? Because I want it that way.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 10:40 PM   #7
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

I have to disagree, Beltran and Wang just weren't good actors. And if they were, they just didn't put any effort in right from the start.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 11:05 PM   #8
janeway59
Lieutenant
 
janeway59's Avatar
 
Location: Southern Calif
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

Anwar wrote: View Post
I have to disagree, Beltran and Wang just weren't good actors. And if they were, they just didn't put any effort in right from the start.

Agree to a point, I think Chuckles tried in the first season, then he seemed to just not care.
Agree with Wang, he was a waste, no writing could improve him.
Also, Kes was bad, a badly written character poorly acted, even if 7 was eye candy, I agree with the OP, the character was well written and a great replacement.
__________________
"I'd love to stay and chat but I'm on a tight schedule. Computer, warp six."
janeway59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9 2011, 11:12 PM   #9
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

Kes...well she was just the result of no one thinking things through. If they wanted to show how her species developed with such a small lifespan she should've started off as a kid and then gradually get older (a teenager in S2, an 18 year old in S3, a 25-year old in S4) until her emerging psychic powers halted her aging as a 20-something.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2011, 05:47 AM   #10
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

Anwar wrote: View Post
I have to disagree, Beltran and Wang just weren't good actors. And if they were, they just didn't put any effort in right from the start.
Acting is pretending to be something you are not. Whether it be for entertainment of some other root... But Wang and Beltran probably think of themselves as decent human beings and apart form all the syfy window dressing that's all Chuckles and Kim ever where. Painfully vanilla.

You hear about assholes playing angels and angels playing assholes and that's very interesting but where's the meat in an angel playing an angel?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2011, 02:22 PM   #11
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

They weren't playing angels though, they were playing planks of wood.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2011, 02:48 PM   #12
Mareika
Commander
 
Mareika's Avatar
 
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

It`s interesting that just this weekend Robert Beltran is on stage in LA in the play "The Devil`s Advocate". He plays Noriega and it`s also interesting that such a "bad actor" gets
big applause.
"The emotionally potent Robert Beltran ..."
"A good production, Robert Beltran is extremely powerful as Noriega,..."
"The Latino Theatre Company and the Los Angeles Theater Center has a massive hit on their hands with accomplished actor Robert Beltran portraying a highly convincing and frantic Noriega, and Tom Fitzpatrick portraying the Archbishop."

Beltran - the wooden actor.

Last edited by Mareika; April 10 2011 at 02:49 PM. Reason: error
Mareika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2011, 03:45 PM   #13
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

I think they could've lost Harry Kim without the show feeling any ill effects. Seasons 4-7 really became the Janeway-Seven-Holodoc show anyway, with most of the rest of the cast left scrambling for the crumbs.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2011, 10:04 PM   #14
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

I find Beltran a good actor. He did a great job in seasons 1-3.

As for Wang, I don't know because those in charge never gave him the chance. But I think he has more potential than he was allowed to show.

As for Kes, I find her a great character. Exciting and unique, not the stereotypical "Lara Croft female action character" which we find in many series.

When people compare Kes and Seven, they often forgets the premise for both characters. Kes was never supposed to be a "featured main character" the way Seven became when she joined. Kes was supposed to be a more "background main character" together with Neelix, The Doctor and Kim. Janeway was supposed to be the star of the series with Chakotay and Tuvok and maybe Paris and Torres as "co-starring".

When Seven was added, the whole chemistry changed. Seven was sort of Braga's Mary Sue and all the writers were ordred to write stories for her as the main character, therefore Seven sometimes is regarded as more interesting than Kes.

In seasons 4-7, Seven was the star character, Janeway and The Doctor became co-starring while Chakotay, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Neelix and Kim became "main background characters".

Anywway, if we go back to the original topic, I see no reason for a series where the main characters are killed off one by one. There's already too much of that in the current Voyager books and as we know, even the TV series had some nasty, unwanted episodes with unnecessary character destruction.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at: http://lynx677.byethost12.com
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10 2011, 10:13 PM   #15
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Devil's Advocate...Why stop at just getting rid of one cast member

They needed to get rid of Kim and I would have jettisoned Neelix and Kes.
startrekwatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.